England Team Discussion

[MUFC1987]

Heard lots of good things about Wood, so would be surprised if he's not in a squad somewhere this summer.

Willey is a decent biffer with the bat too, so could bat at 8 and with the likes of Woakes and Ali in the side, would be fine as one of 6 bowlers. He's just the type of guy who makes things happen, so would be worth a look for me.

 

[IceAgeComing]

Stats are a very valuable tool and can be used to select players that are underrated. Its not about cricket but Moneyball is a book/film that proves this: its about a real story about the Oakland Athletics baseball team using sabermetrics (very complex stats for baseball) as a way to construct their team and managed to build a team that got to the World Series (although they lost) on a much lower payroll. You'll probably laugh at me for bringing up a dumb video game here; but I've been playing loads of Out of the Park Baseball 14 recently (got it in a bundle of games for $1, already preordered the new version) and I went from building the worst team ever to actually competing when I worked out what the second page of stats actually all meant. I think that anyone saying that they should not look at stats at all ever are very naive.

England use those stats in a very bad way though: and seem to refer to them as gospel. They seem to use them to analyse when to score in a game and to have the rate of scoring worked out from the start which is of course incredibly dumb. They are useful at working out broad weaknesses that batsmen have and can be used as a guide (left arm spin against KP is an example that I remember from the past), but you shouldn't follow this 100% all the time especially if it doesn't work. Its the same with selection; sometimes a bowler with a low List A average has a bowling style that suits County cricket but would get hit internationally - although the guys should definitely get a shot.

It would be interesting to see splits worked out (average against pace/spinners, left/right handers etc) since that would be an interesting thing to examine. They do this for the broadcast but I've never found an online resource for these which is odd since stats are a huge part of cricket and the only other sport that's similar (Baseball) has stats for these things worked out right back...

In short stats should be used in selection and combined with game video to work out weaknesses that certain opposing batsmen have; but they shouldn't be used to force batsmen to bat slowly because "that's the plan that the stats say that we should follow"

 

[TheW]

England should give Trott another chance.
After all, he scored consistently well in '11. He can do it again.

 

[_Sam_]

England should give Trott another chance.
After all, he scored consistently well in '11. He can do it again.

Possible return on the cards for him as Cooks opening partner in the WI.

 

[IceAgeComing]

ahem

 

[richowebbo]

Root is good because he can accelerate: I'd argue that batting at a run a ball in the top 4 isn't "slow" by any means: that's on track for 300 if everyone does it even without your sloggers. IMO England's biggest concern is bowling: Anderson/Broad seem totally threatless and I can't think of anyone else that they have coming through. Jordan is good and should have played earlier in the competition, but other than that



tempted to ban you just for asking this question

Bit harsh.

 

[SpitfiresKent]

I turned on the Verdict to find Carberry saying that he should have been playing

Did he actually say that? I only watched half of it.

We need to start introducing the likes of Sam Billings to ODI cricket this coming summer, this isn't even my Kent bias taking effect here, just look at his List A stats!

 

[blockerdave]

Have a read of this... makes sobering reading: ‘We’ll have to look at the data’: England’s World Cup disaster deconstructed | Sport | The Guardian

England are so far behind it's scary.

My favourite stat is this:
5
Ireland have beaten five full members at World Cups since 1992; England have beaten four.

 

[LiveLoveABD]

you don't know what you are talking about.

Based on the performance of England in the limited overs format, I'm pretty sure you don't know what you are talking about. This is the exact problem with England. Their fans, media, players and management live in a world of total denial. I'm sorry, I'm a bit of a fan of English cricket so it's very annoying when the British fans themselves don't get it.

Cricket is NOT soccer. It's a CAPTAIN'S game, not a COACH/MANAGER. I just see the influence the guys outside the team have on your guys and it's just shocking. I'm sorry, but what sort of data did Peter Mores want to look at after yesterday's debacle. The problem with England is not it's cricket, but the people who run it. You empower the coaching and back room staff with such unprecedented power that a player feels burdened. At the end of the day, it's a sport. It's played by athletes, who should be able to express themselves to the best of their ability. At the moment, England's players actually look like they're a bunch of students about to enter a mathematics exam and they haven't got a hope in hell of getting through.

The moment you create restrictions on how a player should play, you not only arrest your own scope and range, but completely deprive and destroy the growth of the cricketer. Christ in heaven, thank god the likes of De Villiers, Maxwell and Dhoni were born in the countries they were. If they were born in England, they would either be playing county cricket, or be following a RPO chart and a designated WAGON WHEEL on where to score and where not to. Just let them be free, results will follow.

Start by allowing your chaps to play the IPL, no holds barred. It's the place where players find financial security, get attention and a lot of love from the crowds. It also allows them to learn from each other. You say it only does bad to the cricket internationally. Well, all the other countries that allow players to play the IPL have that 'dynamic' thing that's so lacking in ODI's for England. It might be a good time, to eat some pride and accept some mistakes. If not and they continue to sit on their 'history and heritage,' soon, losing to England might become an embarrassment for Bangladesh.

 

[blockerdave]

Where have I said there should be a restriction on how a player plays? the issue for Ballance was precisely that - they took a reasonably aggressive middle order player and asked him to go in at 3 and play pushes and prods like Jonathan Trott. you take his performance in 4 games, out of form and in the wrong position and under stupid instructions and say he isn't a one-day player. you have no idea what you are talking about.

Notwithstanding there is a huge step up between English domestic one day competitions and a world up or any ODI, Ballance's record suggests he has the makings of a fine one day player, if in form and played in the role he is comfortable.

 

[LiveLoveABD]

Where have I said there should be a restriction on how a player plays? the issue for Ballance was precisely that - they took a reasonably aggressive middle order player and asked him to go in at 3 and play pushes and prods like Jonathan Trott. you take his performance in 4 games, out of form and in the wrong position and under stupid instructions and say he isn't a one-day player. you have no idea what you are talking about.

Notwithstanding there is a huge step up between English domestic one day competitions and a world up or any ODI, Ballance's record suggests he has the makings of a fine one day player, if in form and played in the role he is comfortable.

Well, then I guess that a lot of the experts also don't have much clue what they're talking about? I have seen Ballance bat in about 6-7 ODI'S, and there's nothing there to suggest the term IMPACT. Mike Atherton who has been doing stints on STAR (the broadcaster in India), found it amusing that they replaced Cook in the 11th hour because he wasn't pro active enough, but they did so with Ballance, "who's exactly like Cook."

Now, those aren't my words. Those are Mike Atherton's words. Perhaps, even he doesn't know what he's on about, you do!

England cricket flops must take responsibility for World Cup exit, but Peter Moores made mistakes - Nasser Hussain | Daily Mail Online

Nasser Hussain, clearly labelling Ballance as a Test Match batsman.

 

[blockerdave]

Well, then I guess that a lot of the experts also don't have much clue what they're talking about? I have seen Ballance bat in about 6-7 ODI'S, and there's nothing there to suggest the term IMPACT. Mike Atherton who has been doing stints on STAR (the broadcaster in India), found it amusing that they replaced Cook in the 11th hour because he wasn't pro active enough, but they did so with Ballance, "who's exactly like Cook."

Now, those aren't my words. Those are Mike Atherton's words. Perhaps, even he doesn't know what he's on about, you do!

England cricket flops must take responsibility for World Cup exit, but Peter Moores made mistakes - Nasser Hussain | Daily Mail Online

Nasser Hussain, clearly labelling Ballance as a Test Match batsman.

oh, you've seen 6 or 7 odis, that means everything.

Batting at 5 for Yorkshire Ballance averages almost 50 at a strike rate over 90. He is not necessarily in the world class league but his domestic one day record over the last several years suggests there is a far far better one day player - played in the correct role - than he has shown playing 3 for England. And yes, for Yorkshire, he plays the finishing role.

England are not blessed with many guys who are going to score at or better than a run a ball. An in form Ballance, played in the correct position, would make our best one-day team. To suggest he is not a one day player is ignorant, and I don't care who says it, and if they're basing it (as you are) on a few innings played out of form and out of position, batting to stupid orders, they are a cretin to boot.

 

[grkrama]

only video of balance i could find in colored cloths. its little but i would reckon he h can hit it a bit if he wants to certainly not limited as cook.

 

[Dutch]

Just found England's new one day coach:

 

[_Sam_]

Does anyone know how many we will probably take in the test squad to the West Indies?