India Team Discussion

Captaincy has become such a "entitled" spot in Indian cricket, and that needs to change. In earlier times, captaincy performance reviews used to be and the churning used to happen more often with captains because in those days, a 'captain' was just another member in the team who made the decisions on the field but the line was drawn at the right place. Today, captaincy has become all about "moulding a team according to your likes/dislikes and making them play a certain way". By this, you give utmost powers to the captain when it should be a collaborative effort. I guess things changed a lot after Ganguly became captain and created a halo around his captaincy.

I dont know if Indian cricket will ever want to go back to those days and make a captain less powerful (because it attracts lot of hype/publicity, even if negative). Guess we have to wait for some really calm/composed captains (e.g. Dravid, Dhoni) to often come through the ranks to lead teams in the future.
 
I know most of the age old Indian fans who have followed Cricket with all their emotions over the years are certainly not pleased with the recent developments but I would just say one thing- all this is just publicity stunt and the people in the power wants us to focus on all these things to divert us from something we are not aware about.

Just stay calm and let things happen the way they should be happening. We can always discuss whom we want at the helm but eventually we don't have the power to force a decision. Do we? So why unnecessary lose your peace for it?
 
NILAYSHAH60 said:
Thrown out your logic in frustration or something?
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I mean the best way forward would have been giving captaincy to someone who new. Sharma and Kohli might not be around for long. Kohli is on a holiday spree since couple of years, Sharma is on injury spree. We could have gone with Iyer or Pant or KL. Either way Indian cricket is doomed.
 
SaiSrini said:
Captaincy has become such a "entitled" spot in Indian cricket, and that needs to change. In earlier times, captaincy performance reviews used to be and the churning used to happen more often with captains because in those days, a 'captain' was just another member in the team who made the decisions on the field but the line was drawn at the right place. Today, captaincy has become all about "moulding a team according to your likes/dislikes and making them play a certain way". By this, you give utmost powers to the captain when it should be a collaborative effort. I guess things changed a lot after Ganguly became captain and created a halo around his captaincy.

I dont know if Indian cricket will ever want to go back to those days and make a captain less powerful (because it attracts lot of hype/publicity, even if negative). Guess we have to wait for some really calm/composed captains (e.g. Dravid, Dhoni) to often come through the ranks to lead teams in the future.
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See I am not saying that Dravid/Dhoni/Ganguly did not help the side develop themselves but as far as I know, Rohit is equally calm as Dhoni and he backs his players the way a certain Australian Captain used to do. And tbh Rohit learnt it from him on how to actually lead a side.

I've followed MI very closely since 2013 and the thing that works so good for them is the trust their Captain have on his players. And I am sure he would do the same for India as well.

Rohit Sharma lead India to Nidahas Trophy title with an under-strength team and eventually won the Asia Cup in 2018. So his methods are pretty much effective plus he doesn't really have any sort of bias towards anyone. You would actually find Rohit very unbiased while selecting his players. So your call for a calm/composed Captain is something India already has in their bank.

As I said, don't react to these headlines and all. Let it fall to the deaf ears! This is just a misinformed incomplete garbage that is being fed to us right now.
 
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WutUpMahGlipGlops said:
Either way Indian cricket is doomed
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You are just thinking too much man! There are teams that are in much worser state. Do you see their fans say that, "Our Cricket is doomed" or anything like that?

Not just Indian Cricket needs a revival but their fans with unnecessary pessimism just need a break! From where do our lot bring such pessimism? I don't know but I always see subcontinent fans unnecessarily complaint about things and never really appreciate the performance of their ranks. We just need to improve!
 
NILAYSHAH60 said:
You are just thinking too much man! There are teams that are in much worser state. Do you see their fans say that, "Our Cricket is doomed" or anything like that?

Not just Indian Cricket needs a revival but their fans with unnecessary pessimism just need a break! From where do our lot bring such pessimism? I don't know but I always see subcontinent fans unnecessarily complaint about things and never really appreciate the performance of their ranks. We just need to improve!
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When you have been following cricket for 20 + years, you just know. I have seen Indian cricket where the hopes of what the outcome would be dependent on 1 player. I have seen Indian cricket where it was emerging and becoming a decent side when Bhajji, Yuvi, Sehwag, Gambhir came into the scene, I have seen Indian cricket which was eliminated in 2007, I have seen Indian cricket that became powerful enough to compete and be scared of post 2007 under MSD. The same me have seen Indian cricket who has become the best test side in the last 5 years and never complain about it. Seeing these many sides, I know or can predict what the future looks like. This future looks bleak for limited overs format and NOT the test side, even though the test side has some cracks but it can be easily repaired.

My main issues with our limited over side are

  1. OUTDATED Template - Be it be ODI or T20. I do not know if this template will change but we are still playing both the formats as if its 2010.
  2. Ego - The money IPL is pouring and the amount the cricketers have started earning from endorsement and IPL is insane. This has not led to good performance, it has only led to EGO.
  3. God like stature - THIS HAS TO STOP. I was never the one saying SRT is a god. I mean old me would have said once or twice in emotions but SRT was not god of cricket for me. He was a GOAT in todays term. We tend to make players god and try to worship them.
  4. No clear direction - We have 0 direction in whom we want in the squad, what the role is and how we want to win. I remember under Dhoni we were the best chasing unit and had a record of some sort chasing 18-19 games without losing.
    1. Tell me who are our main openers? KL Sharma? KL Prithvi? Prithvi Sharma? Iyer? Dhawan? Gaikwad? Gill? - WE DO NOT KNOW. Yes its good to have so much talent but will it be used?
    2. Tell me who our number 4 is ? Iyer? Sky? Pant? Anyone else?
    3. If Kohli does not play ODI's, who our number 3 is?
    4. Who our ALL ROUNDERS are? Jadeja... who else? Hardik is not fit, Krunal is mediocre at best, Sundar? Axar? Are they world class?
  5. Strategy - What is our stratergy? Keep going hard even if wickets fall? Tame down the approach and re-assess ? Is this communicated?

There are so many more things were Indian cricket is just not ready for. In 2007, when we lost the WC, we went back to drawing board as mentioned by a lot of players part of the squad and changed the approach. What have we done since 2019 loss? I want to see what we do since our early exit from this years WC.
 
WutUpMahGlipGlops said:
When you have been following cricket for 20 + years, you just know. I have seen Indian cricket where the hopes of what the outcome would be dependent on 1 player. I have seen Indian cricket where it was emerging and becoming a decent side when Bhajji, Yuvi, Sehwag, Gambhir came into the scene, I have seen Indian cricket which was eliminated in 2007, I have seen Indian cricket that became powerful enough to compete and be scared of post 2007 under MSD. The same me have seen Indian cricket who has become the best test side in the last 5 years and never complain about it. Seeing these many sides, I know or can predict what the future looks like. This future looks bleak for limited overs format and NOT the test side, even though the test side has some cracks but it can be easily repaired.

My main issues with our limited over side are

  1. OUTDATED Template - Be it be ODI or T20. I do not know if this template will change but we are still playing both the formats as if its 2010.
  2. Ego - The money IPL is pouring and the amount the cricketers have started earning from endorsement and IPL is insane. This has not led to good performance, it has only led to EGO.
  3. God like stature - THIS HAS TO STOP. I was never the one saying SRT is a god. I mean old me would have said once or twice in emotions but SRT was not god of cricket for me. He was a GOAT in todays term. We tend to make players god and try to worship them.
  4. No clear direction - We have 0 direction in whom we want in the squad, what the role is and how we want to win. I remember under Dhoni we were the best chasing unit and had a record of some sort chasing 18-19 games without losing.
    1. Tell me who are our main openers? KL Sharma? KL Prithvi? Prithvi Sharma? Iyer? Dhawan? Gaikwad? Gill? - WE DO NOT KNOW. Yes its good to have so much talent but will it be used?
    2. Tell me who our number 4 is ? Iyer? Sky? Pant? Anyone else?
    3. If Kohli does not play ODI's, who our number 3 is?
    4. Who our ALL ROUNDERS are? Jadeja... who else? Hardik is not fit, Krunal is mediocre at best, Sundar? Axar? Are they world class?
  5. Strategy - What is our stratergy? Keep going hard even if wickets fall? Tame down the approach and re-assess ? Is this communicated?

There are so many more things were Indian cricket is just not ready for. In 2007, when we lost the WC, we went back to drawing board as mentioned by a lot of players part of the squad and changed the approach. What have we done since 2019 loss? I want to see what we do since our early exit from this years WC.
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You know why this happens? This happens when we don't learn to separate what has gone, what is here at present and what is going to come.

There's just one series that has gone under a new Captain and a new coach and we are here trying to access the future based on what has gone wrong in the past.

Had you followed the New Zealand T20I series closely you can see a much different and refreshing approach from what it had been during the WT20. All the subcontinent Cricket fans need to learn to be in present. The approach of that pessimistic fan just needs to become a little optimistic.

To answer your questions-

1. Gill is no where near the ODI team atleast for now, KLR is sure to move up the order after that England Test series (yes, a different format for sure but this guy is a confidence player. He can perform in any format when his confidence his high). Prithvi Shaw is our back-up opener.

2. Our no.4? Iyer has played every game at no.4 until he was available. He missed out all the matches since he was injured. Also SKY has to be our no.4 in T20Is for all reasons. I don't see what Iyer has to offer in T20Is batting below no.3.

3. No-3 ? Now this is something that only Kohli can clear out.

4. Jadeja, Axar, Hardik (fully fit), Venkatesh Iyer, Sundar, etc..... So we have atleast 5 good quality all-rounders

5. Approach? Now again this is situational, certain match situations require different apporach! This is something that's very complex to answer.

It just seems crystal clear to me from what I could see.
 
India's issues have been prevalent since the CWC 2015.

I agree with some of the pointers raised on the template to be followed. The majority of the issues have stemmed since we started focusing on building a side that is feared in Test cricket. This is akin to what England focused on, early in 1990's. They had, on paper, the side to take the CWC in 1992/96, but the overwhelming focus on Test cricket meant that the efforts on ODI were completely side tracked. It took them a split captaincy change and a different approach to sort things out.

India has shown stark similarities to the English sides of the 1990s. The big superstars, the great plays, but inability to win a CWC. @WutUpMahGlipGlops has rightly pointed out the issues that plague us. Dunno, if these can sorted soon.

WutUpMahGlipGlops said:
Ravi Shastri on the other end is hogging all the limelight on how badly he was treated and what all bullshit. Now I am all in for a break and mental health space but Kohli just had a break and is coming back from a break. Also Rohit Sharma was hitting it so nicely and now he is injured? This isnt the 1990's anymore that you can fool the public.
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Ravi Shastri- Dunno what to make of him? He has gone on record and stated that a juvenile committee led by MSK PRasad actually overoade what he and Kohli thought was best for the team. Utter bull crap! Didn't the coach/captain have any say in who would travel to CWC 2019? 4 keepers- really, Ravi, thats what you noticed NOWWW? When the whole world picked it up then, you notice it now? I can only imagine, if this was the state of selection with MSK at the helm, imagine what Shastri and Kohli would have been subject to if Amarnath/ Vengsarkar were the Chairman of Selections?
 
WutUpMahGlipGlops said:
fearsome tweak you Kohli and fearsome tweak you Rohit! Make Mohammad Shami the captain and move on!
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images


Oh my gooo... Turu luv....
 
I am happy Kohli has come out and expressed his view in his style. Shame on BCCI for handling this issue. Just when you think BCCI cannot get any worst, they behave this way!
 
Kohli just big time contradicted with the BCCI president and he's doing it right before leaving for a major tour. How is he not being pulled out of the squad and not asked to appear before an investigation committee? You can't throw your employer under the bus in front of your customer.

Who's right or who's wrong, we cant say! But this is HORRIBLE timing from Virat Kohli and if I was in an influential position in the BCCI, I would immediately pull him out of the SA series, announce to the public that "he is indefinitely suspended pending an internal investigation" and not play him until the hearings are done.
 
SaiSrini said:
Kohli just big time contradicted with the BCCI president and he's doing it right before leaving for a major tour. How is he not being pulled out of the squad and not asked to appear before an investigation committee? You can't throw your employer under the bus in front of your customer.

Who's right or who's wrong, we cant say! But this is HORRIBLE timing from Virat Kohli and if I was in an influential position in the BCCI, I would immediately pull him out of the SA series, announce to the public that "he is indefinitely suspended pending an internal investigation" and not play him until the hearings are done.
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Don't know what wrong he has spoken. He just answered the basic questions asked in the press conference. I didn't honestly read anything that he has spoken against Ganguly/BCCI. Perhaps there's something I should know over here?
 
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