Pre-qualifying for world cup qualifiers for weak nations.

[War]

I have thinking about this recently when looking @ the Wales national football team. They have two excellent young players in Gareth Bale &
Aaron Ramsey who would make England so stronger in the future. But given unlike cricket, football carries a totally different historical heritage in England. Thus Welsh people have their own football team.

But their best players historically like Giggs, Ian Rush, Mark Hughes, John Charles, Bellamy would never get international recognition. Given Wales abysmal record in both World Cup & European Championship qualifying over the last 50 years.

If you look at UEFA's 52 nations. The likes of Albania, Luxemborg, Liechtenstein, Latvia, Wales, San Marino, B & H, Cyrpus, Estonia, Montenegro, Faroe Islands, Lithuania, Andorra, Albania, Malta, Georgia, Moldova.

All of these teams should definately have earn the right to be part of the UEFA WC OR Euro qualifiers - instead of automatically be put into a group. Via all of them playing in a "group" & the best teams out of this crap bunch would then earn the right to participate in the WCQ & Euro qualifiers.

By doing this you reducing the chances of crap matches being played in qualifiers like a Spain vs San Marino. This can be easily done with all confederations except CONMEBOL or OFC.

With CONMEBOL the 10 teams, they dont have any joke teams like San Marion or Andorra like in UEFA. So they are fine.

For OFC such a system isn't needed their since thats usually a crap group. FIFA has a good structure for them, in which if a OFC team really deserves to make the WC, they can like what NZ did this time.

Thoughts??

 

[Ollie_H]

Don't thought the African's do that? They have a first qualifying competition with all the rubbish teams and then they integrate the winners into the second stage?

 

[War]

Don't thought the African's do that? They have a first qualifying competition with all the rubbish teams and then they integrate the winners into the second stage?

I'm not sure. But if they do, they have the right idea.

 

[War]

http://www.footballtop.com/news/world-cup-2014-qualifiers-preview-germany-vs-kazakhstan

Kazakhstan is coming to the match against Germany with a bitter sense of underestimation after Joachim Loew put under question their right to compete against European powerhouse.

The manager questioned if it ?made sporting sense? for the major European national sides to compete against small countries like ?Kazakhstan, Andorra, San Marino or the Faroe Islands?.

Germany stands top of Group C with three victories from four matches, while Kazakhstan

Haven't found a link from any major sites. But while watching the England vs San Marino & Spain vs Finland i heard the pre-match commentators say the Germany coach made this suggest. It's been long overdue, let the San Marino's of this world enter pre-qualifiers.

 

[puddleduck]

When exactly is this meant to happen?

 

[StinkyBoHoon]

well, wales beat us tonight, again, so lets not slag them off too much.

who cares anyway, so it's a mis-match, they're playing a barman in midfield and there was two chartered accountants on the pitch. I can't be the only person that thinks that's really cool.

 

[puddleduck]

You're not.

 

[War]

well, wales beat us tonight, again, so lets not slag them off too much.

who cares anyway, so it's a mis-match, they're playing a barman in midfield and there was two chartered accountants on the pitch. I can't be the only person that thinks that's really cool.

Wales when they had Ian Rush, Hughes, Giggs they manage to win the odd game here or there. But their overall output has been poor. No tournament since 1958 is a damning statistic.

Plus i reckon Scotland are going through a bit of shocking phase in their football right now & the lack of key regulars such a Fletcher, Brown, Morrison, Forrest, McCormack isn't helping their cause.

For the UEFA champions league they pre-qualifiers for the main draw all the time. Same should happen with these UEFA qualifiers, let only the best of average bunch of UEFA teams earn the right to play the major teams/good mid-level UEFA teams in the main draw.

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When exactly is this meant to happen?

Not sure how UEFA would do it, if they were to ever do it soon.

But given most UEFA world cup qualifiers tends to start in the September after most EURO tournaments - then i reckon these pre-qualifiers could happen late july-august while the UEFA Champions league qualifiers are going on.

The likes of Albania, Luxemborg, Liechtenstein, Latvia, Wales, San Marino, B & H, Cyrpus, Estonia, Montenegro, Faroe Islands, Lithuania, Andorra, Albania, Malta, Georgia, Moldova, Kazakstan don't have much major world players either who play in major leagues.

So the threat of club managers probably losing their minds if their players play in such a international tournament, during the normal club pre-season would be minimal.

 

[puddleduck]

So what happens when they do produce a star? Does that player skip games because his club pays him the money that gives him a career? Do clubs not sign him because he has to play more international football during their seasons?

Why do you keep including Wales? They've just beaten Scotland twice. Not too long ago Georgia had a few Premiership players. Montenegro are currently top of our qualifying group and have two world class strikers. You're also suggesting that those nations play international qualifiers in exactly the same time as their club champions would be playing club qualifiers.

As usual, another well thought out post from War

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The whole point of football is that is accessible and inclusive to nearly anyone. It isn't exclusive like cricket or rugby, it isn't limited in scope like Baseball or American Football. It isn't dominated by just one or two nations like Basketball. It's the global game, and your ideas sound like they'd insert a divide rather than serve any purpose.

What you seem to be missing, is that what is currently happening is exactly what you are suggesting. We are currently playing qualifiers for the main tournament. This isn't the finals, it's a stage that allows all nations a chance to reach the proper tournament.

 

[War]

Club managers already complain about every friendly, international break for legitimate or illegitimate reasons. So i just mention the july-august scenario because i could see it becoming a problem.

However that is not concrete, since i am not FIFA/UEFA. If they do it down the line, they would have to decide which period is best.

A pre-qualifying tournament for the main draw of the UEFA WCQs wouldn't be "b" class internationals either so by no means come across as divisive. I can see such a tournament being very competitive anyway.

I was in my mother's country Trinidad up the last year when they got shockingly knocked out of the 1st stage of qualifiers by a unknown team called Guyana in a ground atmosphere in Guyana that was very competitive & intimidating like any football ground. And those Guyana players eventually got the chance to play Mexico & Costa Rica for the 1st time in their history. Essentially they earnt that chance.

Fact is some of those UEFA teams are crap & big nations playing them in qualifiers is useless. I mention Wales because it was brought up, beating an struggling Scotland team is hardly a country defining feat. Judge them by their body of work in over 50 years & unfortunately if their is a extra stage of UEFA qualifiers, they would have to play in it based on that.

Look at Australia in the Ocean zone over the years, they had to play teams like Samoa, New Caledonia - but for their development they asked join the asian qualifiers.

Even in the ASIA group this occurs to a level - teams like India, Pakistan, Nepal, china, vietman, thailand, syria etc etc end up playing a extra set of qualifers before they could possibly end up playing AFC giants like Japan, South Korea, Australia.

In CONCACAF also teams like Mexico & USA don't enter the world cup qualifying until a year after a large portion of those average caribbean island teams knock themselves & only the best of the rest remains.

 

[MasterBlaster76]

I have thinking about this recently when looking @ the Wales national football team. They have two excellent young players in Gareth Bale &
Aaron Ramsey who would make England so stronger in the future. But given unlike cricket, football carries a totally different historical heritage in England. Thus Welsh people have their own football team.

But their best players historically like Giggs, Ian Rush, Mark Hughes, John Charles, Bellamy would never get international recognition. Given Wales abysmal record in both World Cup & European Championship qualifying over the last 50 years.

If you look at UEFA's 52 nations. The likes of Albania, Luxemborg, Liechtenstein, Latvia, Wales, San Marino, B & H, Cyrpus, Estonia, Montenegro, Faroe Islands, Lithuania, Andorra, Albania, Malta, Georgia, Moldova.

All of these teams should definately have earn the right to be part of the UEFA WC OR Euro qualifiers - instead of automatically be put into a group. Via all of them playing in a "group" & the best teams out of this crap bunch would then earn the right to participate in the WCQ & Euro qualifiers.

By doing this you reducing the chances of crap matches being played in qualifiers like a Spain vs San Marino. This can be easily done with all confederations except CONMEBOL or OFC.

With CONMEBOL the 10 teams, they dont have any joke teams like San Marion or Andorra like in UEFA. So they are fine.

For OFC such a system isn't needed their since thats usually a crap group. FIFA has a good structure for them, in which if a OFC team really deserves to make the WC, they can like what NZ did this time.

Thoughts??

Absolutely. Matches like yesterday's 8-0 are a waste of time. San Marino learn nothing, other than they're useless, can't attack, can't defend and ship tons of goals. England learn nothing, other than they can thrash a bunch of hopeless amateurs.