Ashes debate thread.

[zreh]

If Vaughan was sucha great innovator in captaincy,how come he lost in Pakistan?
He should have won that series.

Your statement is brief, yet quite true.
Everyone was writting Pakistan off, even when they were playing at home! Bad idea...Surely England would beat Pakistan after they regained the ashes from the mighty Australian's!?!? right...? WRONG!
England got hammered, yes the conditions were different, but if Vaughan was and is so important to England, couldnt he have come up with some brilliant master plan to beat the Pakistani's :

The guy is overrated PERIOD.

 

[BigCrickNan]

Your statement is brief, yet quite true.
Everyone was writting Pakistan off, even when they were playing at home! Bad idea...Surely England would beat Pakistan after they regained the ashes from the mighty Australian's!?!? right...? WRONG!
England got hammered, yes the conditions were different, but if Vaughan was and is so important to England, couldnt he have come up with some brilliant master plan to beat the Pakistani's :

The guy is overrated PERIOD.

What about Pontings captaincy? Good thing hes the bsest batsman in the world.

 

[barmyarmy]

In Pakistan England did their usual trick of losing in a fourth innings run chase. They were on top in the 1st test and 198 was comfortably the lowest score of the match to chase. The second test was drawn and whilst they were crushed in the final test that was on the back of an exceptional Pakistan first innings score.
My point is that England didn't get hammered: 1-1 would still have been a fair result for the series however they did prove that we perform far better on bowlers wickets than batsmans wickets. Our players consistently got themselves out without being got out whereas the Pakistani batsmen had much more patience and were able to occupy the crease for longer.
FWIW I think the two teams are very evenly matched although Pakistan's inability to bat well on seaming and swinging wickets is possibly more damaging than England's inability to apply themselves on flat tracks.

 

[Sureshot]

Did Vaughan play the whole series?

 

[zreh]

In Pakistan England did their usual trick of losing in a fourth innings run chase. They were on top in the 1st test and 198 was comfortably the lowest score of the match to chase. The second test was drawn and whilst they were crushed in the final test that was on the back of an exceptional Pakistan first innings score.
My point is that England didn't get hammered: 1-1 would still have been a fair result for the series however they did prove that we perform far better on bowlers wickets than batsmans wickets. Our players consistently got themselves out without being got out whereas the Pakistani batsmen had much more patience and were able to occupy the crease for longer.
FWIW I think the two teams are very evenly matched although Pakistan's inability to bat well on seaming and swinging wickets is possibly more damaging than England's inability to apply themselves on flat tracks.

I understand what you're saying. But do you really think that England would have continuously put up these 400+ first innings scores if Akhtar, Asif, and Rana were playing?? I very highly doubt it. These are 3 world class seamers Pakistan are missing. If they were playing, I guarantee you that the scores would not be so lopsided. Its not that the Enland batsman are excellent at playing on the green wickets, its just that Pakistan's pace attack is non existant.

 

[evertonfan]

I understand what you're saying. But do you really think that England would have continuously put up these 400+ first innings scores if Akhtar, Asif, and Rana were playing?? I very highly doubt it. These are 3 world class seamers Pakistan are missing. If they were playing, I guarantee you that the scores would not be so lopsided. Its not that the Enland batsman are excellent at playing on the green wickets, its just that Pakistan's pace attack is non existant.

Asif world class? He may be good but you are being a bit generous aren't you?

 

[ZoraxDoom]

He is world class. Did you see how he completely demolished Sri Lanka?

 

[evertonfan]

He is world class. Did you see how he completely demolished Sri Lanka?

Yes I did, but one performance doesn't make him World-Class, otherwise Harmison would be.

 

[ZoraxDoom]

And Harmison isn't world class? Despite being number one in the rankings?
Asif hasn't played much, but has impressed a lot. Against India he was near impossible to score off, and he demolished the Lankans!

 

[BigCrickNan]

Yes I did, but one performance doesn't make him World-Class, otherwise Harmison would be.

If Harmy aint world class then very few fast bowlers are.

 

[evertonfan]

If Harmy aint world class then very few fast bowlers are.

I believe he is world class too, but a lot of people on these boards (mostly Aussies : ) seem to think that he isn't, and that his only good performance was in Jamaica 2004.

And Harmison isn't world class? Despite being number one in the rankings?
Asif hasn't played much, but has impressed a lot. Against India he was near impossible to score off, and he demolished the Lankans!

Sorry, I meant to quote you in my previous post, not Drewska.

 

[ZoraxDoom]

Forgot 6/19 just recently? The terrorising of Aussies in the Ashes??

 

[evertonfan]

Forgot 6/19 just recently? The terrorising of Aussies in the Ashes??

Woah! I'm not critiscising Harmison, I think he is a world class bowler! I'm just pointing out that he is not always considered as a world class player on these boards. His 6/19 last week was superb.

 

[barmyarmy]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/cricket/england/5249938.stm

The news we were all expecting/fearing.
SiJo probably out of the Ashes.

 

[shravi]

200'th post!!!

SiJo probably out of the Ashes.

That's bad news. Simon Jones was terrific in the last Ashes and Enlgand will surely feel his absence in Australia. Let's hope for the best though.