Don Bradman Cricket 14 - first impressions thread

blockerdave

ICC Chairman
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Last 15 years has shown me that getting AI right in a cricket game is very hard indeed
So many permutations to think about. Match awareness is obviously difficult to program else most cricket games would have implemented it much better than it has been

true... but actually, it sometimes feels in this area the AI has actually regressed in DBC14.

i mean, in general the game is a "leap forward", but let's be honest it's shocking that you get such terrible AI fields that are utterly inappropriate to the format or game situation, or opening the bowling with a spinner in english first class games etc. no other cricket game ever - not even ashes 13 - got these details wrong. and then the AI batting is really really bad... in the whole time of playing i think i felt achievement twice getting wickets... mostly they play the wrong line by miles or scoop it to mid-off; not to mention the push to mid-on wait for him to pick it up, then set off, ooh look i'm run out.

elements of this game show such wonderful attention to detail you can feel the "love" that went into it... other elements make you think they learned everything they know about cricket from a Japanese post-war leaflet entitled "crazy englishmen doings, for making honourable sporting space, summer time happy fun"

it's also clear that... putting this diplomatically... there is a gap between expectation (in terms of what was suggested would be in the game) and reality for the AI. the AI does not learn and adapt to your player over the course of a career... the AI starts a pre-set field i created, and which i have tested and seen i could easily game if i want, and then randomly plugs gaps as you hit them.

there is so much to love about this game, but the d'oh moments can be really spoiling, and certain elements should never ever ever have passed QA
 

BigAntStudios

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Apologies to BA for this comment. It was heat of the moment rubbish

It's not torture to play tests - its just a bit unfulfilling for me at least. Not too bad in career mode, but when playing as the whole team I find it a bit wearing



Last 15 years has shown me that getting AI right in a cricket game is very hard indeed
So many permutations to think about. Match awareness is obviously difficult to program else most cricket games would have implemented it much better than it has been

No worries, we understand that the AI needs to be better.
 

Blinder

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As stated previously, the majority of my time playing this game has been in casual and competition mode, in different formats, often customised, so I've picked up on AI tendencies.

My take on things is that the AI batting does demonstrate competency at times when playing DBC14. Namely:
- during powerplay overs in T10's and T20's - a realistic run rate of 7-10 rpo.
- during the initial overs of test matches/long formats when bowling on veteran and legendary.
- when the AI is 7/8 down in long formats often they put up a defensive re-guard action going at 3.00 runs an over, playing smart shots, on all difficulties.

To me this indicates that things are not that far off - there is potential to make the AI the best ever seen in a cricket game.

Unfortunately, the tactics required to bring about a wicket when the AI is batting 'properly' isn't exactly a good representation of real-life cricket. There is little reward element to putting in any slips and attacking fields because of the lack of edges. There is the risk of going for big runs however, in any situation. The "go-to" tactic is to set neutral or defensive fields and be patient to wait for a lobbed catch to mid-on, mid-off or an outfielder. This is the most disheartening thing.

The AI falls down in these situations:
- 3/4/5 wickets down they attempt to hit stupid shots and get caught and take suicidal runs

The height of my enjoyment playing cricket games in all my years has been when bowling to a challenging AI and attempting to implement plans to get them out. This challenge is the most rewarding thing I look for in games. Unfortunately there have been a few golden moments in previous games where I've felt genuine enjoyment in implementing realistic tactics to dismiss the AI. These are:

- Ashes Cricket 2009: bowling to the opening batsman (4/5 wickets down the AI would start going at 10 an over)
- International Cricket 10: Again bowling to the top order (4/5 wickets down the AI would collapse). I actually think the AI pacing of innings in this game is still the best I've seen. One day matches I found challenging until the loopholes became apparent.

These games I could set realistic fielders during these 'moments', and it felt genuine getting a wicket to an edge carrying to slip for example.

A common theme is occurring though - the performance of AI batsman in the middle order. I think this is all related to batsman and bowler 'confidence' meters, and bowler stamina meters. The effect these parameters have on AI performance is something that I haven't really ever seen done well, with one exception -

Ricky Ponting Cricket 2005: I remember this game had this balance thing with a visible batsman and bowler confidence and stamina meters, and when bowling it felt rewarding when trying to execute plans to reduce batsman confidence (eg: bring about a play and miss or hit to the body) and increase bowler confidence to bring about a wicket. Unfortunately after a short amount of time loopholes and bugs became apparent, but I did think they really were onto something there.

Probably will get slayed for mentioning these games in the same breath as DBC14. No doubt DBC14 is superior in most aspects and no doubt previous games have had their horrendous bugs which have rendered them in many ways unplayable (and yes I am aware of the cover drive for six over third man bug in IC10).

All I'm trying to say is that there have been elements of other games come and gone which DBC14 might benefit from looking at in regards to AI performance.

And these are just my own experiences - people probably have had experiences completely different to mine. :cheers
 
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grkrama

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No worries, we understand that the AI needs to be better.
ross is the AI bobbing the ball in the air related to not being able to pierce infielders as stated in other threads?
are AI aware that they are not able to pierce the fielders and go for shots?

if thats the case will the ai be much better once you guys fix the fielding stuff.
 

Blinder

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ross is the AI bobbing the ball in the air related to not being able to pierce infielders as stated in other threads?
are AI aware that they are not able to pierce the fielders and go for shots?

if thats the case will the ai be much better once you guys fix the fielding stuff.

Think its more complex than that. At 0/40 in a casual test match on legendary difficulty, the AI play ground strokes for 4 without the need to go aerial.

The main problem is middle order batsman new to crease going the slog from ball one with no confidence. They don't play themselves in.
 
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kulch

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the career mode leaderboards only need to be fixed

ie just have cricket stats. we dont need xp. just cricket stats, runs, wickets, avgs etc etc etc. let us sort them and thats it. there will be a leading wicket taker and a leading centurion amongst many other stats - you can compare with friends and whatnot.
 

Blinder

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the career mode leaderboards only need to be fixed

ie just have cricket stats. we dont need xp. just cricket stats, runs, wickets, avgs etc etc etc. let us sort them and thats it. there will be a leading wicket taker and a leading centurion amongst many other stats - you can compare with friends and whatnot.

Yeah the leaderboards are a waste of time at the moment and holding everything back. I don't think anyone cares. But if it was stats eg: centuries, average, highest wicket takers then that would be something worth looking at.
 

grkrama

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yup same here have been harping it for some time now, but people just want to use XP so that leaderboard is not skewed , as if it doesnt get skewed even if xp is used.
Statistics is a great part of cricket it would be cool to have that, instead of stupid points like FPS games.
 

MattW

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They do make sense from Big Ant's perspective though - leaderboards are like achievements/trophies - a good way to get general 'gamers' to play a cricket game, as it adds extra longevity by making people want to keep ranking higher on the leaderboards.

That should also help in making people not want to trade in DBC14 because they'll never be 'done' with it.

Perhaps that's not anyone on here - but there's plenty out there who seem to not play games for the fun of it - and just want to be number one online or whatever - leaderboards get that job done.

The stats are viewable on the leaderboards, but hidden a bit.
 

grkrama

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They do make sense from Big Ant's perspective though - leaderboards are like achievements/trophies - a good way to get general 'gamers' to play a cricket game, as it adds extra longevity by making people want to keep ranking higher on the leaderboards.

not really, no one of the cricket nerd is going to be bothered in topping it a leader board and other thing about leader boards is it will alienate people other than say the top 100 or so, who have a chance to catchup,others will just give up or will not be bothered.

In that regard a stats board will open up plenty of opportunities to excel and fields to top and improve, something that will have a larger pool of players in competitive mode and will further elongate the game as well as online.

That should also help in making people not want to trade in DBC14 because they'll never be 'done' with it.
I dont think any true cricket fan will do unless they are also getting a PC version.
The stats are viewable on the leaderboards, but hidden a bit.
ok didnt know, that but still would say stats board would be better for a cricket game than just random XP system.

Cause the stats board will encourage the whole cricket nerd community to engage even better, seriously games like cricket coach and ICC have been living for years being just a simulator just because of stats nerds, so i would say its a missed opportunity that can actually make the game better if implemented.
 
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MattW

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not really, no one of the cricket nerd is going to be bothered in topping it a leader board and other thing about leader boards is it will alienate people other than say the top 100 or so, who have a chance to catchup,others will just give up or will not be bothered.
Again - it's not about the 'cricket nerds' - it's about giving reasons for a wider gaming audience to play it - even if that means setting it on Rookie, hitting a six on every ball and getting achievements and XP and ranking up on a leaderboard - or going online with crazy fields and trying to annoy people into wins.

While I suppose some of the XP stuff is a negative in terms of some of the resulting requirements on balance that people might not want to be restricted by, most of the time you can totally ignore it - while it's there for those who do care.
 

Blinder

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I would say 99.94% of casual gamers playing a cricket game want to see stats as opposed to XP as a measure of their performance, cos that's how the real world works too
 

grkrama

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Again - it's not about the 'cricket nerds' - it's about giving reasons for a wider gaming audience to play it - even if that means setting it on Rookie, hitting a six on every ball and getting achievements and XP and ranking up on a leaderboard - or going online with crazy fields and trying to annoy people into wins.

While I suppose some of the XP stuff is a negative in terms of some of the resulting requirements on balance that people might not want to be restricted by, most of the time you can totally ignore it - while it's there for those who do care.

so you are saying so the whole leader board stuff is there for annoyers n casual wackers, but not the core of the product.

The amount of people into cricket stats is quite high to be ignored, when something ties itself beautifully into your product why not do it.
xp was invented for games like fps and rpg so that they could have a stats system, so that gamers placebo-ed that they were earning something like in real games, now cricket already has a freaking good stats system then why just not use it.

even by that theory wont the casual wackers understand scores, its still numbers right? just ad one more field to sort through the level they are playing, and this is were naming the difficulty levels other than the generic novice, amateur , pro would have worked wonders, call it something like the Planet cricket member title stuff, like county, associate, national etc would have been better and also, satiated the EGO of many, being county Captain in leader board would be better than Novice NO1, at the same time have a leader board separating difficulty levels.

i dont understand this, on one hand we are talking about making them game realistic and stuff( no field radar and stuff, i also dont want it) on the other hand you want to over-cater to casual players not going to happen.
 
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kulch

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leaderboards are good for online play hd2hd

but i dont think its required for career - ironically its on the hd2hd leaderboard where we can see peoples stats, this should have been in the career leaderboard first n foremost instead of XP
 

sami ullah khan

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I am playing career as a pure batsman so I have to ask here. Has anyone experienced reverse swing yet?
 

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