ENG vs SAF: A test cricket heavyweight battle being denied?

[War]

In observing the good ICC announcement that they will have its world test championship finally in 2017 - ICC news : Test Championship to replace Champions Trophy | Cricket News | Cricinfo ICC Site | ESPN Cricinfo, i decided to check just now when next is England & S Africa scheduled to play a test series, since obviously they are the superior test teams.

S Africa have all the tools & depth to be the next great # 1 team & England now having dominated recent Ashes series & conquering India have one more challenge for this post 2010/11 Ashes era of players to conquer.

To my shock according to the FTP - ICC news : Test Championship to replace Champions Trophy | Cricket News | Cricinfo ICC Site | ESPN Cricinfo, the next ENG vs S Africa series is until Dec/Jan 2015/16. To me that is way too long especially considering that ENG have are scheduled to play India & AUS - teams they have just wiped the floor/wiping the floor with in recent test series in home 5 test series in 2014 & 2015. That's crazy scheduling.

From a cricket point of view that England return series should not happen later than 2014. Although S Africa were worthy winners last year, many ENG fan would attest that ENG let themselves down in a few area's i.e catching.

Because if ENG & S Africa lets say dominate all en route to that 2016 series clash & even the now announced final four placing in the 2017 test championship - it would be unfair if come 2016, when the likes of KP, Smith, Swann, Steyn, De Villiers, Amla, Kallis, Anderson are closing in on 35 or possibly retired until this series is played. They should clash again when all those players as they are now are at their peaks.

Really think some bilateral series that ENG or S Africa have next year should be rescheduled so that this return series is played, the cricket world would be better if we see this heavyweight clash over 4 tests withing the next 12 months.

Thoughts??

 

[sifter132]

Well my own views have changed a bit. Now I don't like series too close together - and 2 years should be the minimum time between series in my opinion. I was impressed by the British and Irish Lions rugby tour of Australia, they come to Australia every 12 years and you get the sense that the traditions are more revered, moments in games are bigger, memorable moments from series past are more special when tours don't happen so often. So I don't have a big problem with the Eng-SA scheduling.

I'm guessing that the Ashes rescheduling is in some way involved? (ie. on a 4 year schedule SA should have been back to England in 2016, but wedging in an extra Ashes series into the cycle pushes that tour back to 2017, meaning Eng's tour of SA can be pushed back to 2015/16.) The Ashes madness is is what has prompted my opinion change on this issue in the first place. We'll have 10 Tests in 6 months and 15 Tests within 2 years. Absolute overkill and just cheapens a great brand.

 

[cricket_icon]

Well we have to back Ashes series' and a world cup down under so England cant possibly fit in a test series home or away to SA until the proposed dated of 2015/16. I kinda like that though, in the mean time, the two teams can clean up the lesser teams around them, all the pretenders and challengers and get at it for the heavyweight championship of the world.

In that time I really would like to see Pakistan and the Windies develop as Test sides, they both have the tools ,especially Pakistan. Hopefully a return to home series' for them too. I'd like to see India do better away from home and NZ really become a top 5 side.

 

[War]

Well my own views have changed a bit. Now I don't like series too close together - and 2 years should be the minimum time between series in my opinion. I was impressed by the British and Irish Lions rugby tour of Australia, they come to Australia every 12 years and you get the sense that the traditions are more revered, moments in games are bigger, memorable moments from series past are more special when tours don't happen so often. So I don't have a big problem with the Eng-SA scheduling.

I'm guessing that the Ashes rescheduling is in some way involved? (ie. on a 4 year schedule SA should have been back to England in 2016, but wedging in an extra Ashes series into the cycle pushes that tour back to 2017, meaning Eng's tour of SA can be pushed back to 2015/16.) The Ashes madness is is what has prompted my opinion change on this issue in the first place. We'll have 10 Tests in 6 months and 15 Tests within 2 years. Absolute overkill and just cheapens a great brand.

With regards to the Ashes overkill, if you recall the reason we are havin the back-to-back Ashes this year is because England wanted to avoid playing an Ashes in Australia in 2014/15 - then going straight 2015 world cup.

England learnt from their 2002/03 & 2006/07 Ashes tours that the exertions of an Ashes before a world-cup campaign is too much work load on their players.

But i think the the boards of the England & S Africa could reschedule a few series with other countries to let this return series happen soon i think.

I recall when India were ranked # 1 according to ranking system, they scheduled 2 test series outside of the FTP schedule versus Australia & S Africa. And this year the Windies basically cancelled test home series vs PAK, SRI just to have extra ODI series so that their players could play IPL & to get extra cash.

Because if as i said England win both this years Ashes, while S Africa blow away India in January - the next major battle for both teams will be for both teams to have a re-match. It would make no sense for them to keep beating teams that are below them.

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Well we have to back Ashes series' and a world cup down under so England cant possibly fit in a test series home or away to SA until the proposed dated of 2015/16. I kinda like that though, in the mean time, the two teams can clean up the lesser teams around them, all the pretenders and challengers and get at it for the heavyweight championship of the world.

Yea but come 2015/16, players like Kallis, Swann, KP, Steyn, Amla could be retired or past their peaks. Which could kind of kill the vybe of that series. Although of course both sides could produce some young stars which may keep the contest alive.

In that time I really would like to see Pakistan and the Windies develop as Test sides, they both have the tools ,especially Pakistan. Hopefully a return to home series' for them too. I'd like to see India do better away from home and NZ really become a top 5 side.

Ye both PAK & Windies are have a lot of raw talent & could make a serious strides in tests if they can sort of the mental side of their games, which seems both teams impress more in T20 cricket.

 

[War]

'England must beat SA to be considered the best' | Cricinfo Magazine | ESPN Cricinfo

Timely statement from Broad, which is precisely why i started this thread a month or so ago.

 

[Owzat]

Trying to fit too much in, picking and choosing priorities and it's very difficult to fit in big series and in Tests, ODIs and T20s, and World Cups, keep up the same length of series - 5 for Ashes AND South Africa, something has to give.

There needs to be a regular schedule with fixed length, say 4 Tests, 3 ODIs and 2 T20s. That's 25 day's cricket, padded out with rests inbetween.

Of course England tend to pick KP, Trott, Cook, Swann, Anderson and Broad for two formats, hence them being rested in the ODI series ahead of the Ashes, shows which format is more important , but maybe countries need to head towards separate Test and ODI sides which would negate the need for so many gaps...................

In another thread I put a proposed schedule that might just get Tests in, home and away, over four years I think it was. It is possible, but it would be even better with tiers.



England have played South Africa twice in the past few years, most recently last year. It may seem a long time, and part of that is too much to fit in including series obligations with sides like Bangladesh, West Indies, Zimbabwe and New Zealand. England have in the past, and still do sometimes, played two series in a summer/winter, but playing five Tests in the Ashes and with other commitments this is still too much to be easy.

The problem is it still lacks structure, and by the looks of the "Championship" it will continue to. Was the Ashes awesome because it was five Tests? No, it was a damp squib pretty much decided before it got to the last two Tests. A five match series is a nice theory, supposedly won't finish in a draw etc, but so often these can be over before they get to any thrilling climax. It would be like playing football for 180 minutes straight instead of 90, in some matches it may add something, but in others where it is 3-0 or whatever it will just drag on.

Cricket needs to change, and I don't mean more T20s or less ODIs/Tests, but serious proper structural change.

 

[cricket_icon]

Good points being made Owzat, I think KP, Cook, Trott and co being rested in the Aus ODIs is not to do with Eng taking the 50 over game above t20 cricket but more to do with Eng tryin to keep their main players fit for he return Ashes in Australia.
Cook, KP, Bell, and co have been a part of the ODI side for quite a while now.

But back on topic lol It's true what War has said about some of England's and SA's key players being out of action by 2015/16. I reckon KP, Anderson, Steyn, Morkel will still be around but the likes of Kallis/Swann may well have retired.

Even the players that stick around won't be at their best, having said that, we've had SA and Eng play each other twice in recent years and SA have won, with their best players against England's best, both home and away. In my honest opinion, I think SA are the better test side.

 

[War]

Even the players that stick around won't be at their best, having said that, we've had SA and Eng play each other twice in recent years and SA have won, with their best players against England's best, both home and away. In my honest opinion, I think SA are the better test side.

Yes S Africa are still clearly the best team, but in ENG's defense that 2012 series which S Africa won in ENG, it was a clouded with the KP controversy and at times ENG played below par.

So a return series soon, would be centered around England redeeming themselves.

 

[cricket_icon]

Agreed, their's a great story line with England v SA, like a great boxing trilogy almost. It's rare that test series' get so much context but with SA V Eng we have such a context and the ICC should have struck when the iron was hot.

What is England's test schedule post the next Ashes?

 

[StinkyBoHoon]

What is England's test schedule post the next Ashes?

a tour of mars. it feels like it's taking long enough for that to be a possibility.

 

[War]

Agreed, their's a great story line with England v SA, like a great boxing trilogy almost. It's rare that test series' get so much context but with SA V Eng we have such a context and the ICC should have struck when the iron was hot.

What is England's test schedule post the next Ashes?

According to the FTP England will play these series before the next scheduled series vs S Africa in Dec/Jan 205/16:

2014

- ODI/T20 tours to windies in Feb
- T20 world cup in March
- host sri lanka in May/June
- host India in July/Aug
- ODI/T20 in Sri in Nov/Dec
- ODI in Aus Dec/Jan

2015

- world cup in AUS/NZ
- tests in windies April
- host New Zealand in May/June
- Ashes in July/Aug
- away to Pakistan(UAE/Sharjah) in Oct/Nov

Personally don't know why they should play India in 5 tests next year. That series should be simply 3 tests.

Understandably i can see why later 2014 why much ODI's will be played in preparation for the world cup. But i think if they shortened the India home series and replace tour those winter tours with a test & ODI South Africa an test & ODI tour before the world cup.

 

[cricket_icon]

According to the FTP England will play these series before the next scheduled series vs S Africa in Dec/Jan 205/16:

2014

- ODI/T20 tours to windies in Feb
- T20 world cup in March
- host sri lanka in May/June
- host India in July/Aug
- ODI/T20 in Sri in Nov/Dec
- ODI in Aus Dec/Jan

2015

- world cup in AUS/NZ
- tests in windies April
- host New Zealand in May/June
- Ashes in July/Aug
- away to Pakistan(UAE/Sharjah) in Oct/Nov

Personally don't know why they should play India in 5 tests next year. That series should be simply 3 tests.

Understandably i can see why later 2014 why much ODI's will be played in preparation for the world cup. But i think if they shortened the India home series and replace tour those winter tours with a test & ODI South Africa an test & ODI tour before the world cup.

Thanks

And I agree, noway is India v England worthy of 5 tests, we all know what the result will be, no different from last time. I think India and Pak could both have been 2015 tours and SA the marquee name in 2014.

 

[War]

Ye its not ideal & i believe if as predicted England & South Africa keep dominating teams come the middle of next year - calls for a re-match series between ENG/SA soon will get pretty loud.

 

[cricket_icon]

Ye its not ideal & i believe if as predicted England & South Africa keep dominating teams come the middle of next year - calls for a re-match series between ENG/SA soon will get pretty loud.

SA V Pak has changed things, putting Eng and SA on slightly even footing, especially if Pak win 2-0.

Can't the ECB change it's schedule to get SA here in 2014?

 

[Punk_Sk8r]

Well my own views have changed a bit. Now I don't like series too close together - and 2 years should be the minimum time between series in my opinion. I was impressed by the British and Irish Lions rugby tour of Australia, they come to Australia every 12 years and you get the sense that the traditions are more revered, moments in games are bigger, memorable moments from series past are more special when tours don't happen so often. So I don't have a big problem with the Eng-SA scheduling.

I'm guessing that the Ashes rescheduling is in some way involved? (ie. on a 4 year schedule SA should have been back to England in 2016, but wedging in an extra Ashes series into the cycle pushes that tour back to 2017, meaning Eng's tour of SA can be pushed back to 2015/16.) The Ashes madness is is what has prompted my opinion change on this issue in the first place. We'll have 10 Tests in 6 months and 15 Tests within 2 years. Absolute overkill and just cheapens a great brand.

This reminds me of India/Pak series the first time it happened after a while it was really hyped up then they played each other over and over and over from there on out