Problem: Bowling Experience in the Next Version

[Dutch]

Bowling is fundamentally broken in this game.....having tried everything possible to get a decent bowling experience, I have given up..............when someone smashes Jimmy Anderson off a full length ball over square leg for six on a cracked, grassy surface under a cloudy sky on the first ball of a test match, then I switch off (yes, using reduced skilled teams....).......@MattW and others: now things are being gathered for a next version could you shed a little light on what ways Big Ant hope to move forward on the bowling experience for the next game.......

 

[Markkkkk]

Shh dont speak too loudly...Then they will come...

 

[blockerdave]

Bowling is fundamentally broken in this game.....having tried everything possible to get a decent bowling experience, I have given up..............when someone smashes Jimmy Anderson off a full length ball over square leg for six on a cracked, grassy surface under a cloudy sky on the first ball of a test match, then I switch off (yes, using reduced skilled teams....).......@MattW and others: now things are being gathered for a next version could you shed a little light on what ways Big Ant hope to move forward on the bowling experience for the next game.......

Be great to know. Agree with every word.

 

[Ajh1977]

Although I have had some good bowling experience on DB, I think it needs a massive overhaul, I'm happy with the controls, but when your leg spinner can't hit top of stumps due to ridiculous bounce (too much so even fill length balls still go over the top, or so little its on the way down before it reaches crease) and the absolute lack of turn is frustrating to say the least.

Funnily enough I had a great moment earlier, bowling round the wicket to a right hander with my leg spinner, pitched on middle, turned a little, just enough to take a slight edge to keeper. I have to admit I only really bowl in career and tend to bat both innings in other modes. My career player is a leggie, and I would say bowling spin is much more fun than the rest, just needs more turn, less drift and the bounce sorting out.

 

[MattW]

I can only say that bowling is my focus. It is the aspect of the game above all others that I care about and want to enjoy.

I can't put that into concrete things yet, it's a feeling as much as anything, the feeling of being able to put in place a bowling plan and having all the other factors fall into place to make sure that if I do it right then I can earn a wicket.

The word earn being key.

That has all sorts of things that need to be in place; attributes, edges, weather and pitch conditions, confidence, skill, controls, etc.

Playing the single wicket test format online is I think the best place I got to in DBC14, usually against Biggs. That situation of bowling to a player who knew how costly a mistake was, and how much risk to take.

I'm interested in everyone's thoughts, but at this stage just know that bowling is what I care about most, I hope I can help get it right.

 

[grkrama]

its not just about AI hitting the bowlers but the total randomness and lack of match situation awareness or quality of bowling assessment.

today me and @funnyadit were playing a co op t10 the AI was chasing 140 in 10 overs it was going at a steady clip the kind of blazing start required, then suddenly after 6 overs decided it will not go for the target with all 10 wkts in hand, it was so bad that me and adit started doing this the game of trying to make the AI win, pulled all the field in like tests, bowled with mcculum and ross taylor, to take it further i even made sure that anything we caught in the out field was taken to the boundary(yup that is possible ).




Gave like 5 boundaries like that till we got bored, Try hard as we might noballs free hits we were not able to make the AI compete...it looses games with 9 wkts in hand. There is a huge disconnect [overide blocker's term of slotmachine comes to mind] between bowling and the AI batting that goes beyond attributes at times.

There is two disconnects here one is the global one of the whole match awareness of not going for target with wkts in hand.

The other lack of delivery awareness, at the start of innigns when the AI was in a 'go get it mood' it went after what i would consider pretty good to decent deliveries from southee and boult.

But once it went to ok lets just loose this game im not bothered mode at 6th over i think after that even mcculum's bowling was not taken on despite bowling a lot of poor deliveries with field up.

Its basically like a predetermination thing either running the show or overriding the AI.


This has to be addressed strongly in the sequel a weak vulnerable organic AI is better than a gamey im here for numbers solution.

this on reading matt's assurance im sure will be done just saw it posted above

 

[Dutch]

I can only say that bowling is my focus. It is the aspect of the game above all others that I care about and want to enjoy.

I can't put that into concrete things yet, it's a feeling as much as anything, the feeling of being able to put in place a bowling plan and having all the other factors fall into place to make sure that if I do it right then I can earn a wicket.

The word earn being key.

That has all sorts of things that need to be in place; attributes, edges, weather and pitch conditions, confidence, skill, controls, etc.

Playing the single wicket test format online is I think the best place I got to in DBC14, usually against Biggs. That situation of bowling to a player who knew how costly a mistake was, and how much risk to take.

I'm interested in everyone's thoughts, but at this stage just know that bowling is what I care about most, I hope I can help get it right.

Thanks for that Matt: its great having you on board with BA and I know how much you love bowling.....that's good point you make there about the 1 wicket match format which I enjoyed as well: that sense of really having to weigh up risks and rewards with every ball really came through in that format: how to capture that with AI and how to get that "feeling" with every ball faced? As Grkrama says there doesn't seem to be a situational awareness from the AI: they have a number of things they can do and do them but it feels very limited....as you described, bowling to a plan and earning wickets.....how can we get AI to do that too?

 

[blockerdave]

For me "earn" is the key - a feeling that the wicket is connected to what you're doing.

For me, and talking about longer formats major things to look at are rewarding corridor of uncertainty bowling through perhaps affecting batsman's confidence if hitting the areas consistently; looking at what they play (and how) and what they leave; making sure leave animations are appropriate.

It's a difficult concept because nobody wants a "3 in a row on 5th stump, land the next one there & get an edge" outcome; equally if plugging away line & length doesn't feel rewarding the game loses so much.

I want the game to force me to bowl differently with different bowlers: so my short paceman it's fast skiddy Yorkers, my tall guy it's back of a length, left armer it's the one nipping back, main spinner it's all big turn, 2nd spinner drift & flight.

So it should be materially easier/harder to bowl certain deliveries based on bowler skills, attributes, pitch/match conditions, match situation, and player form.

 

[Deleted member 149013]

Bowling is fundamentally broken in this game.....having tried everything possible to get a decent bowling experience, I have given up..............when someone smashes Jimmy Anderson off a full length ball over square leg for six on a cracked, grassy surface under a cloudy sky on the first ball of a test match, then I switch off (yes, using reduced skilled teams....).......@MattW and others: now things are being gathered for a next version could you shed a little light on what ways Big Ant hope to move forward on the bowling experience for the next game.......

Nailed it.

To me this is one of the best points that I have seen for a while and one that hopefully can be fixed moving forward.

I tried out the tour’s on the game and I can’t play them the bowling is just unrealistic. A new ball and no edges, no balls slipping of the bat down to the third man area.

The batsman just play it with ease.. I recall a six in the first over of a test match like it was a T20 but this one was a high cover drive and it just kills the enthusiasm.

The ultimate for an England fan is to select Jimmy and have a new ball in hand with the cloudy skies and swing it in and find the edges or clean bowled.

 

[grkrama]

the other thing which again goes into the sum of parts territory is lack of imperfect shots, proper nudges and leaves, majority of cricket is comprised of imperfect strokes, perfect drives and shots are fewer in game hence make the montages.

Adding this into gameplay for AI as well as
player will go a long way in improving
immersion as well as options to generate
real life game situation like fending of a offstump probing overs instead of smacking for six overhead.

 

[Ajh1977]

There's nothing better than feeling you've bowled to a plan and earned a wicket, I bowl a fair amount of leg spin in the career mode, and although there has been time where I feel I may have set the batsman up, I believe its more random than that ATM.

I what i would like to feel when bowling is that period where you bowl well but just not getting any luck, and also when you're bowling poorly but are getting wickets, I guess what I'm saying is you need a "bit of luck" in the bowling, and in the game in general to really make the game immersive. Scripted randomness without the script.

Simple fixes could include inside edges not always resulting in wickets. (Good days/bad days) - ( good/bad sessions,) passages of play etc.

ATM the only luck for batsman is dropped catches and inside edges.
And for bowlers, inside edges and dropped catches.

Maybe introduce a LUCK attribute that is not only hidden, but also random, per game, session, power play, new ball spell , old ball spell and so on. How much of a bearing it should have on a particular outcome shouldn't be the be all and end all though, good bowling should still be the major factor, so if you're bowling badly, yes you may get a wicket or two but you should also be taking a pasting, but if you bowling well and not taking wickets the runs you conceed are "streaky" and your economy should still reflect you've bowled well.

 

[Dutch]

Okay lets take the discussion further: lets be positive and start describing what the ideal bowling experience would look like, perhaps using experiences from previous cricket games if applicable or just using our creativity: we also dont want every ball to be a cruise missile, so how to get the balance right...

For me the mechanics of bowling are pretty spot on; it is the outcome that is so frustrating; however that being said there are a few things I would like to see tweaked to the control mechanics: more control over the run-up.. Not quite sure yet how that can be done but woukd like to feel that my input in the run up is going to have an impact on the quality of the ball leaving the hand....

Speed of release reflected in the pushing of the stick..that I can dictate the speed of the delivery more....

Do away with the length buttons...point of release dictates the length

Some form of control as to how the ball sits in the hand and leaves the hand....yes I can press a button that says I want to bowl with the seam up but how well I achieve that relies on my imput.....

Just a few starters to discuss further... The bowling experience needs to be more like the batting experience...in batting I have a sense of control and imputfrom A to Z ... With bowling this keeps breaking down along the way....

 

[asprin]

Do away with the length buttons...point of release dictates the length

This is actually a very good point. Why not have the pitch spot be decided by the point of release? Not only will it be more realistic but will also help in changing the length at the last moment should there be a change of mind.

 

[whiteninness]

This is actually a very good point. Why not have the pitch spot be decided by the point of release? Not only will it be more realistic but will also help in changing the length at the last moment should there be a change of mind.

As long as the margin for error with bowling a no ball is increased.

 

[Dutch]

The pitch enviroment needs to be a real sandbox enviroment wherein the physics are really open and subtely different each time depending on all factors....

I think the controls need to be much more geared towards controlling the body of the bowler rather than the ball.. what the body does right or wrong determines the quality of the ball bowled