Final: Australia v England at Bridgetown

King Pietersen

ICC Board Member
Joined
Nov 15, 2006
Location
Manchester
You know Kieswetter played in Bangladesh and in his last innings made a century right? There is no chance in hell England will open in ODi's with Strauss and Cook given the success of an attacking opening partnership in Kieswetter and Lumb in this tournament. Going back to those 2 would be a step backwards. I would HATE to see that XI, especially considering Prior's still in there. Dire ODi player. Glad you're not an England selector that's for sure. Cook only played in Bangladesh because he was seen as Vice Captain and they wanted to give him some captaincy experience. He's nowhere near good enough to be playing ODi's for England with the likes of Davies, Lumb, Trott, Bell, Joyce and the like knocking on the door. Hell, I'd rather go back to Bopara and Denly than see Strauss and Cook open in ODi's.
 

Brook

Club Captain
Joined
Aug 18, 2009
Location
UK
Online Cricket Games Owned
Australia: drop Clarke, make White captain and bring in (bowling) all-rounder. Not sure who, maybe Christian? Can't rely on Watson with the ball.

Well done to England. King Pietersen's motto held: you can lose the match batting in the first 5 overs (it was arguably over in the first 13 balls)
 

BKB1991

Panel of Selectors
Joined
Dec 4, 2008
Location
Manchester
Online Cricket Games Owned
Well Congratulations to All English Fans for Their First World Cup Success. Have to say this was the least likely format I thought they'd win, but they have proven me wrong. A Well deserved victory!

KP is Legend!
 

War

Chairman of Selectors
Joined
Feb 10, 2010
Online Cricket Games Owned
Sorry, Trott's a better player of spin than Ian Bell? Are you having a laugh?

Bell also has a good record in ODi's, averaging over 35 with an ok strike rate. He's also played magnificently for Warwickshire in the last 2 years, and was striking at over 100 this season in 40 over cricket (just dipped below 100, down to 99). Bell's a hugely under-rated OD player, and is out-playing Trott this season for Warwickshire. Trott looked terrible against the turn of Herath against Hampshire, whereas Bell was just skipping down the track and lofting him over cover with ease. There is no way on earth Trott is a better player of spin than Bell.

Herath isn't exaclty a big turner of the ball. He is one of those spinners that relies mostly an accuracy.

Trott in his short career to date has indeed looked a bit patchy vs good spin. While Bell has for the majority of his career although he played well vs BANG 2010 & in SRI 07/08). But given that Trott will be opening or batting @ 3 if he plays for England in ODIs, he will be facing pace the majority of the time. His problems againts spin thus wont be exposed much. Plus of course after Trott was ridicuolusly nto picked by the ENG selectors for years & ODI failures like Cook, Bell, Maddy picked in front of him - by rightsany future opening in the top order Trott has to have first prefence over any one else.



On Bell again. He aint underated as an ODI player at all. Him averaging 35 as ODI cricketer was always a suprise - since it was fairly obvious he struggled for the majority of his ODI career. He needs to put in alot more performances in our average List A cricket to make up for 5 years of mediocre performances @ international level, especially when as i said clealry guys like Lumb & Trott have emerged. Plus youngsters like Alex Hales also around who can open.

He was rightly dropped. Plus coincidentally he was dropped during a ODI series in India 08/09. Where he struggled opening & playing spin & you want to recall him to open to play such a role in India next year :facepalm



Pitches might not turn big, but they're still going to be slow. Trott is not good at rotating the strike against spin. He doesn't appear to have a go-to boundary option either. He seems to just sit on spin and block. That simply won't work in a WC held in the subcontinent. It's baffling to me how you can say that Trott is a better player of spin than a guy who is England's 2nd best player of spin at Test level. Bell is very good against spin. Good at rotating the strike, tends to read spin well, and is excellent at using his feet down the pitch. Bell is so far ahead of Trott as a player of spin it's not even funny.

How is Bell is better player of spin than Strauss or Collingwood?. I see you have forgotten how Bell struggled againts Warne in the 2005 Ashes. Plus that embarassing leave alove againts the wiles of Paul Harris in the recent 1st test vs South Africa?. Easy now

Plus no i dont expect to see low slow pitches in India next year based on watching numerous Australia ODI series wins in 03/04, 07/08, 09. Along with England series their in 2008 & the last 3 IPL tournaments. Flat batting beauties is what im expecting for the majority of pitches in India. We may even get a greentop.


Strauss doesn't play spin too well in ODi cricket, and I see him getting stuck and not advancing the scoring rate too quickly. He's excellent at getting pace away, but on slow tracks I think he could struggle. Davies has done the hard work in County Cricket, and has been the best County wicket-keeper batsman on the circuit in the last 3 years in OD cricket. I'm a huge Michael Lumb fan, but there is no way he should be ahead of Steven Davies, nor should Trott, or Strauss.

As for waiting for Strauss to flop. How long are we going to give him? He played well against the West Indies in 1 series, but he's done very little in the last year. 16 matches, 443 runs at 27.68, top score of 63 and a strike rate of 74. Time for him to move aside, give Collingwood the captaincy in ODi's and T20i's, and time for the selectors to give Steven Davies a chance. How can you argue against these statistics:

Code:
Season    Runs    Avg    S.R

2007    457    38.08    
2008    689    49.21    112.39
2009    658    50.61    117.50
2010    140    70.00    142.85

They're exceptional statistics, and he really should be given a go in the ODi side. He's a better batsman than Strauss, and a better keeper than Kieswetter. Give Davies the gloves and allow Kieswetter to focus on his batting, and work on his keeping ahead of future T20's. Davies is also a better player of spin/slow bowling than Lumb and Trott too. It's a no-brainer of a selection for me.

You place wayy to emphasis on stats yo.

Firstly on Strauss. Yes he did not maintain that very high standard he had during that 2009 tour to WI. During the ODI series @ home vs AUS & the ODI series & CT in SA. But you cannot seriously tell me that Strauss didn't look good opening in those series after the windies tour?. He got a lot a very impressive starts, but didn't convert many of his innings - a bit like Kieswetter in this T20 WC up until the final.

Plus like Trott. If Strauss is opening he wont have to be tested againts the spin. So thats a none issue. Plus i have not seen much strong evidence that Strauss plays spin too well in ODIs as you claim. We already know he plays them well in tests, so i'd say if he gets a good start during the power-play overs againts the pace. He then would be in a very good position to handle the spinners through the middle-overs.


Overall Strauss definately deserves to start the summer opening & his progress thus can be monitored between now & the ODI series in Australia 2010/11 before the world cup.

Plus we don't know yet if Collingwood wants to take the ODI captaincy back long-term. He gave it up in 2008 because he said at the time it was affecting his batting. Its a totally different thing for him, if he knows he just has to captain in T20s which is a short format for 1 or 2 games a series. So that needs to be considered as well.


On Davies now. regardless of all these fantastic stats in the last few years. The selectors have still manged to pick Kieswetter as the keeper bat & Lumb to open ahead of him in the ODI & T20 teams recently. Why do you think that is?. Because like me the selectors probably watched him bat in county cricket & well probably wasn't sure if he couldn't dominate international new-ball bowlers as a limted overs opener. (This is my view on Davies based on watching him bat - i obviously cant say if the selectors feel that way).

I like Davies, but that has always been my worry about Davies as a potential international ODI opener regardless of his stats. Even someone like Phil Mustard would be a better hitter than Davies as international opener i'd say. But of course Mustard due to his technical issues was never likely to have long term success as an opener in international cricket - thus was dropped.

So again i dont see the need to relieve Kieswetter with the gloves @ international cricket. I'd rather him continue to keep wicket while at the same time behind the scenes work on his keeping with Bruce French.
 

shravi

National Board President
Joined
Jun 20, 2005
Profile Flag
India
You know Kieswetter played in Bangladesh and in his last innings made a century right? There is no chance in hell England will open in ODi's with Strauss and Cook given the success of an attacking opening partnership in Kieswetter and Lumb in this tournament. Going back to those 2 would be a step backwards. I would HATE to see that XI, especially considering Prior's still in there. Dire ODi player. Glad you're not an England selector that's for sure. Cook only played in Bangladesh because he was seen as Vice Captain and they wanted to give him some captaincy experience. He's nowhere near good enough to be playing ODi's for England with the likes of Davies, Lumb, Trott, Bell, Joyce and the like knocking on the door. Hell, I'd rather go back to Bopara and Denly than see Strauss and Cook open in ODi's.

Yeah, I know that, but he looked out of sorts in the other matches against spin. He's a very shaky starter. As much as his natural aggression will benefit him, it might hurt him as well. He needs to curb some of his natural aggression at the start of his innings because he seems like a player that will unnecessarily throw his wicket away. I've been impressed with what I've seen so far though. I'm a fan.

BTW, that's not the team I want to see. That's the team I think they will pick. Personally, I want to see:

Alastair Cook
+Craig Kieswetter
Kevin Pietersen
Jonathan Trott/Ian Bell
Paul Collingwood
Eoin Morgan
Andrew Flintoff
Michael Yardy
Graeme Swann
Stuart Broad
James Anderson
 
Last edited:

Sureshot

Executive member
Joined
Feb 7, 2005
Location
England
Online Cricket Games Owned
Davies is a talented batsman, but he does need to work on his glovework. Kieswetter has been something of a revelation in this tournament for England, 3rd or 4th highest run scorer in the tournament, hitting some big sixes with his in to out hitting, a few fumbles with the gloves, but if you wanted a flawless glovemen, we'd have to go with Foster, who is probably 4th choice keeper, behind Kieswetter, Prior and Davies, nor does he offer the opening position that Kieswetter and Davies do.

I like Lumb, he needs to work on spin bowling, but I'd like to see him given a go at the top of our ODI order. I don't believe our ODI side should be much different from this T20 side, except Anderson in for Sidebottom. Bresnan has shown a few weaknesses in the last couple of matches, which may have shone through more if our other bowlers did anything except bowl very well.

Massive shout out to Graeme Swann, one of the most in-form spin bowlers in world cricket right now. The whole bowling unit was exceptional, I don't think I can fault any part of the side except Collingwood's batting, yet he's been a fantastic leader and is, as always, a very dependable fielder, his catch today for Clarke was eye-catching.

Edit: I am the only one doesn't see Flintoff playing for England again? He's not been involved for a while, won't be for quite a while yet, should he just walk back in to and break the side up? He's good, but he's fragile and there's not long left before the world cup next year.
 

Owzat

International Coach
Joined
Apr 4, 2008
Online Cricket Games Owned
First time of course Australia have losted in a final since the 1996 WC.

I assume you're only counting certain "finals" as England beat the aussies on their own turf in the CB Series in 06/07 (2-0, by 4 wickets then 34 runs)
 

King Pietersen

ICC Board Member
Joined
Nov 15, 2006
Location
Manchester
CBA to de-construct the whole post again, far too late. However:

Bell is a better OD player than you're giving him credit for. Discrediting him just because he failed in India, batting out of position opening, when in poor form is harsh. He was excellent for Warwickshire in OD cricket throughout last year, and has started magnificently this year. His innings the other night against Hampshire was brilliant. He dominated Rungana Herath, and didn't allow him to settle on a length. Bell is far more capable of scoring than he was 2 years ago, and is also in very good form. Trott is a talented OD player, but I do not think he'll be a good option in the Subcontinent. He just isn't good enough on slow wickets, or against spin bowling. He looked terrible against Herath, and that was when Hampshire had already given up the game.

I also agree with Sureshot, and see England using Michael Lumb in ODi cricket. I think Flower likes this opening combination. They did a good job in the T20 WC, getting us off to impressive starts, and Lumb did look genuinely good throughout the tournament. He's excellent against pace bowling, and although he needs to improve against spin, he's not quite as bad as a few people have made him out to be. I'd rather see him open with Kieswetter ahead of Strauss. I just don't think Strauss is good enough, and no, I wasn't convinced watching him play in those series. What got Strauss in trouble in International cricket was playing those expansive drives. He loses his shape and plays too far away from his body, and in ODi cricket he feels he needs to play those strokes. He's not played well for Middlesex this season, and has been poor in the last year in ODi's. I'd rather see anyone of Davies, Lumb or Trott opening for England ahead of Strauss.

New avatar too :D
 

Cricketman

ICC Chairman
Joined
Jul 27, 2005
Location
USA
Woah woah, calls for Strauss being dropped? Heck no, he's a solid player with experience and is a good captain. He's had a fair amount of success with the role as well. Maybe not as opener but certainly in the team.

Excuse my relatively limited knowledge of English cricket, but here's a team:

1. Craig Kieswetter+
2. Michael Lumb
3. Kevin Pietersen
4. Andrew Strauss
5. Jonathan Trott
6. Paul Collingwood
7. Eoin Morgan
8. Timothy Bresnan
9. Stuart Broad
10. Graeme Swann
11. James Anderson


12. Michael Yardy because everyone will want 2 spinners in India...

EDIT: On second thought looks like an awfully slow middle order...hmm. Lumb will have to get cut then unfortunately.
 
Last edited:

IanG

Club Captain
Joined
May 22, 2006
Location
Newcastle Australia
Profile Flag
Australia
Woah woah, calls for Strauss being dropped? Heck no, he's a solid player with experience and is a good captain. He's had a fair amount of success with the role as well. Maybe not as opener but certainly in the team.

Excuse my relatively limited knowledge of English cricket, but here's a team:

1. Craig Kieswetter+
2. Michael Lumb
3. Kevin Pietersen
4. Andrew Strauss
5. Jonathan Trott
6. Paul Collingwood
7. Eoin Morgan
8. Timothy Bresnan
9. Stuart Broad
10. Graeme Swann
11. James Anderson


12. Michael Yardy because everyone will want 2 spinners in India...

EDIT: On second thought looks like an awfully slow middle order...hmm. Lumb will have to get cut then unfortunately.


Hmmmm 5 South Africans and an Irishman.
 

Sureshot

Executive member
Joined
Feb 7, 2005
Location
England
Online Cricket Games Owned
Actually, they are all UK citizens. Our country accepts it's massive influence from immigration, I suggest you might do the same. Posting from Newcastle in New South Wales.
 

shravi

National Board President
Joined
Jun 20, 2005
Profile Flag
India
The 4 being kieswetter,kp,strauss and trott, who's the 5th?

Lumb, I think. While I don't like all these foreigners in England's team, there's not much I can say, because it's completely legal and it's allowed. They would be stupid not to take advantage of being able to play those players. My problem is with cricket authorities and how easy it is to just switch. South Africa is fine I guess. I don't like it, but it's not hurting cricket all that much. However, the Irish moving to England angers me. How will Ireland develop as a cricketing nation if their best players move elsewhere?
 
Last edited:

Users who are viewing this thread

Top