" Piracy "

[The_gas]

I have a simple theory. If i like something enough, i buy it, otherwise i don't. I have no qualms about not paying for something if i don't like it enough.

 

[sohum]

That maybe so, but the UK minimum wage is nearly ?6 per hour. You can't really do a direct comparison based on the exchange rate because cost of living is so different.

Yup, if you did a direct comparison factoring in cost of living, you would even more shocked. 8 pounds is going to take you a lot farther in India than it is in the UK.

A couple of points. I purchased an OEM copy of vista shortly after it came out when I built my PC at the time (it wasn't high end by any means) and I don't recall it being anywhere near to 60% of the cost of the base unit.

I'm talking about prices in India. You can build a decent computer for about Rs. 10000-Rs.15000 (in fact, the local companies that have Linux loaded sell their desktops for that much--including a monitor sometimes) and then you'd have to burn at least Rs. 8500 on Vista or XP.

Back to vodka again. You say that once Microsoft release their latest OS they have no costs other than burning it. What about developments (not all bug fixes!), what about tech support staff for you to ring? What about the actual cost of developing it in the first place. Yes with vodka you have to keep buying ingredients but your development costs are pretty much zero, you dont need a helpdesk and believe me the ingredients are pretty cheap. I've never distilled my own vodka but I have done beer. Believe me there's a big profit in making alcohol.

Umm.... the tech support staff is being outsourced. They get paid pretty much minimum wage to do the support calls sitting in India, ironically, for a product that probably costs the same as their monthly salary. Companies have found pretty much all ways to minimize the cost of tech support. Also, with the internet taking off, most people turn to Google for tech support, not the software company. The actual cost of development is another thing. Many software companies these days outsource portions of their development (especially modular portions, such as Testing) to cheaper job markets such as India and China. So they are trying to decrease their development costs to begin with. Those costs are still there, but I feel that most of them are covered even before you get into the consumer market--with manufacturer deals and whatnot. However, how can you justify charging about $100 for a version of XP, now? There are almost no costs associated with it now, and I'm certain they have made large profits on it already, and do not have to back-cover development costs.

Going back to the vodka, you also have to factor in the time it takes to produce it. I've never done vodka either but I've done wine and it takes something like 4-5 months to get to a drinkable state. I'm guessing beer is a little less than that (I'll actually be visiting a brewery in about half an hour!). In converse, it takes 30 minutes - 1 hour tops to produce a DVD with Vista on it and to verify that the data has been burned properly. With many software vendors offering buy-and-download options, this time is also gotten rid of.

 

[Harrypotter_fan]

Was it Bill Gates who started the trend that software should be paid for? Before that I think software was free. I believe that software should be paid for but please make it affordable. MS products are affordable in the west but in India, I don't think so. I know when I grow up I can buy new software even if it is expensive. But right now how do I convince my parents to buy a software and tell them that it is worth the money. Please MS, at least do something for students.

 

[sohum]

Only the single mp3 price makes sense to me. Do they allow you to download any single mp3 you wish? In highest quality?

That's simply the iTunes price that I converted using the exchange rate. IIRC, iTunes opened it's stores to Indian users, but at the same prices.

sohum added 2 Minutes and 58 Seconds later...

Not all higher though. My prices came from Amazon which sells software and music etc pretty damn cheap. ?1.50 for a DVD, we can't get anywhere near that even for bargain bin buys. ?3.50 to go to the cinema, ahhh I remember back in the day when they used to cost that. 63p for an MP3 track, thats similar considering the biggest MP3 seller is itunes and they are famous for their 79p per track policy. Recommended retail for vista home premium in the UK is ?165.99.

I'm not sure what point you are trying to make here. The point I was making is that you see that it's the software companies that have failed to grasp the idea that people in India have less money. Obviously theater owners have to price their movies based on how much the public can pay. And I made the point a few posts ago that the Indian movie studios have finally realized that overpriced DVD's are silly and have slashed prices.

Away from movies and stuff, whats the cost of a litre of petrol in india? Average UK price for a litre of unleaded petrol was 90p last month near as damn it.

I don't know the current value, but back in October 2008 the price of petrol in UK was almost double of India: Source

sohum added 0 Minutes and 32 Seconds later...

I have a simple theory. If i like something enough, i buy it, otherwise i don't. I have no qualms about not paying for something if i don't like it enough.

How do you know if you like it before you have used it?

 

[mukund_nadkarni]

Umm.... the tech support staff is being outsourced. They get paid pretty much minimum wage to do the support calls sitting in India, ironically, for a product that probably costs the same as their monthly salary. Companies have found pretty much all ways to minimize the cost of tech support.

And that tech support is very much overworked, underpaid, and is not trained properly either.

 

[The_gas]

How do you know if you like it before you have used it?

I try it, if i like it, i buy it.

 

[Sureshot]

I think some people forget that software does get cheaper. New PS3 games used to cost ?49.99 on release, now you are looking mostly at ?39.99. FM sells for ?18, can't complain at that. As said though, I fully believe that price doesn't affect most pirates. You can hardly say SI make a huge amount of money out of a game that they sell for ?18. MS with their OS? Well, that's different because OS are in a different league to games. However, I do believe they are overpriced, does that mean I would steal XP or Vista? No.

 

[Highlander999]

I think the only music I have ever downloaded from err.....slightly less respectable traders.....was because I couldn't find it anywhere else. Generally I always buy my music of itunes as it is so cheap anyway. I mean, if a poor uni student can afford it, I have very little sympathy for sixteen year old mummy boys who have money given to them by their parents.

 

[Sureshot]

As opposed to 18-year olds who get given money by Mummy and Daddy!

 

[Highlander999]

God, I hate 18 year olds! Bloody youngsters

 

[Sureshot]

Well, I got A2 and A3 completed tonight. Still got A4, C9 and C10 to do tomorrow before moving on to Unit 1. I plan to get it done by lunch time...

 

[Highlander999]

I don't have anything due in for a few weeks

 

[sohum]

As said though, I fully believe that price doesn't affect most pirates.

Who are you defining as pirates? Are you defining as a pirate a (1) person who sells an illegal copy of software, a (2) person who buys an illegal copy of software, or a (3) person who downloads an illegal copy of software? Or some mixture of the three? If it's (1) then price very much affects the pirate because the demand for the game exists because the company price is set too high. If it is (2), then price very much affects the pirate because obviously they are willing to pay a price to buy the game. If you see a $2-$3 difference between a pirated copy and a legal copy, I would argue that most people would buy the legal one. And if it is (3) then I'd be on the fence. There are many, many people who download software because they think it is too expensive. There are also many, many people who download software because they think everything should be free. That's a harder one to decide.

You can hardly say SI make a huge amount of money out of a game that they sell for ?18.

They don't make a huge amount of money in that they could make a huger amount of money if they sold it for ?28 or ?38. But unless you know their expenses, you can make no claims for what their profit is. Sure, their sales may be smaller, but that does not necessarily mean that their revenue is. I think software is a pretty elastic good in that if you lower prices, there will be a lot more demand for it.

MS with their OS? Well, that's different because OS are in a different league to games. However, I do believe they are overpriced, does that mean I would steal XP or Vista? No.

I am not in anyway encouraging stealing software, but I ask you, generally, what are you doing as a consumer to let the company know that you think their OS is overpriced? Are you switching to another OS? Are you continuing to buy their OS? If consumers think they are shortchanged and keep on buying the product, then the manufacturers have nothing to worry about. Think of it as EA Sports' cricket series. Everytime a game comes out, all gamers bag the game. But everyone still goes and buys the next game. What incentive is there for EA to change anything?

 

[Chetan0304]

There are many sites which ask to pay to download full version of Softwares/music/games but actually they are themselves downloaded illegally and crack it, and then forward the same.

Piracy is a thing which is omnipresent and cannot vanish away like value "0"

 

[Kshitiz_Indian]

I just browsed through this whole thread and sohum basically summarised all of my thoughts based on overpriced software. Infact, I can build a low end PC for around the same price as Vista Ultimate - Source Miscellaneous

Not that I would need to buy Vista ultimate anyways, but home premium is still around 5200 bucks and that's OEM pricing. (This guy sells cheap because he imports them from the US, in normal market the prices are WAY much higher).

Thing is, whatever price its set at, it doesn't provide any incentive to pirate. We're just making a point here that if only MS would price their softwares accordingly(I'm pretty sure now that Windows userbase in India far exceeds that in UK) to the countries average income(the per capita income in India was around Rs 3300 last time it was calculated). I don't mean per capita income really, but I'm sure if people would see Windows like around the Rs. 2400-2500 mark, most of them would pick up legitimate copies along with their computers. I would.