Tour match thread -Scotland v Australia Aug 28

[King Pietersen]

Well you wouldn't, because the last Test series shows us that North's got the talent to bat at 6 in Test cricket with his hundred in South Africa. Hauritz has never been a consistent wicket taking option at FC level, and was outbowled by 2 very inexperienced young spinners who struggle to make it into their County side. I know Australia's not exactly the kindest of places to bowl off-spin, but if your best spinner is one with a FC average of 46.53, only 3 4fers in 45 games and a strike rate of 94 then you've got problems. He's not one of the 4 best bowlers in Australia, so he shouldn't get in the side. Same with Rashid and England. He's not one of the 5 best bowlers, so we should go with 4 seamers + Swann.

 

[barmyarmy]

Well if it helps I updated my BLIC 2007 and went with Feelin Blue's lineup from page 58. Being BLIC they scored at 9 an over but then bowled me out with their three spinners!!! Hauritz, North and Katich...
I won by lunch on the second day though

 

[irottev]

Good? He was outbowled all match by Ollie Rayner and Will Beer, 2 bowlers who struggle to get into the Sussex XI. Hauritz is rubbish. I'd go in with an all pace attack if I was Australia, with North (also outbowled Hauritz), Clarke and Katich offering some part-time spin.

Oh good god, lol. You're asking for a Hauritz five-for.

 

[King Pietersen]

Well yeh. Not sure how a spinner can't have got 1 5fer in 155 FC and List A games. Graeme Swann already has 2 at Test level in 7 Tests (only 6 really as one in Antigua was called off after 10 balls). Swann has 17 FC 5fers and 2 List A 5fers. Hauritz seriously isn't good enough. Compare his FC record in Australia to other Australian spinners from the last few years:

Nathan Hauritz: 69 wickets at 48.90
Stuart MacGill: 357 wickets at 33.06
Shane Warne: 161 wickets at 34.72
Marcus North: 54 wickets at 48.05
Gavin Robertson: 127 wickets at 41.86
Dan Cullen: 112 wickets at 43.91
Michael Clarke: 13 wickets at 20.92
Brad Hogg: 129 wickets at 38.92
Jason Krejza: 54 wickets at 44.01
Bryce McGain: 59 wickets at 34.50

There could have been a few more, but cba to check, but out of all of those listed, quite a few off or finger spinners, Hauritz still has the worst record. Worse than the FC record of Jason Krejza ffs. To sum up, Hauritz is rubbish. Australia need to pick 4 quicks.

 

[barmyarmy]

Siddle, Johnson, Lee and Clark looks like a good seam attack to me with spin if needed from Clarke and North.

 

[smssia0112]

Well you wouldn't, because the last Test series shows us that North's got the talent to bat at 6 in Test cricket with his hundred in South Africa. Hauritz has never been a consistent wicket taking option at FC level, and was outbowled by 2 very inexperienced young spinners who struggle to make it into their County side. I know Australia's not exactly the kindest of places to bowl off-spin, but if your best spinner is one with a FC average of 46.53, only 3 4fers in 45 games and a strike rate of 94 then you've got problems. He's not one of the 4 best bowlers in Australia, so he shouldn't get in the side. Same with Rashid and England. He's not one of the 5 best bowlers, so we should go with 4 seamers + Swann.

Well Hauritz's last test series has shown that he can be quite a decent bowler against a world class batting lineup in South Africa. He's no star, but he tends to keep it quite tight and picks up wickets here and there. South Africa have shown that you can get good results from average spinners, and it wouldn't be too stupid to think that Hauritz can play a good series, especially in spin friendly conditions, against England.

Siddle, Johnson, Lee and Clark looks like a good seam attack to me with spin if needed from Clarke and North.

Any seam attack featuring Lee is not a good one, unless you have McGrath and Warne surrounding him. Even in the 2005 Ashes that wasn't enough.

aus5892 added 3 Minutes and 51 Seconds later...

Well yeh. Not sure how a spinner can't have got 1 5fer in 155 FC and List A games. Graeme Swann already has 2 at Test level in 7 Tests (only 6 really as one in Antigua was called off after 10 balls). Swann has 17 FC 5fers and 2 List A 5fers. Hauritz seriously isn't good enough. Compare his FC record in Australia to other Australian spinners from the last few years:

Nathan Hauritz: 69 wickets at 48.90
Stuart MacGill: 357 wickets at 33.06
Shane Warne: 161 wickets at 34.72
Marcus North: 54 wickets at 48.05
Gavin Robertson: 127 wickets at 41.86
Dan Cullen: 112 wickets at 43.91
Michael Clarke: 13 wickets at 20.92
Brad Hogg: 129 wickets at 38.92
Jason Krejza: 54 wickets at 44.01
Bryce McGain: 59 wickets at 34.50

There could have been a few more, but cba to check, but out of all of those listed, quite a few off or finger spinners, Hauritz still has the worst record. Worse than the FC record of Jason Krejza ffs. To sum up, Hauritz is rubbish. Australia need to pick 4 quicks.

But compare his test record to them (obviously not Warne and MacGill). He has had better results than Robertson, McGain, Krejza, Hogg, Clarke, Cullen and North.

 

[King Pietersen]

There's a difference between Harris and Hauritz. Harris actually has talent as a spinner, and not only keeps it quiet, but gets big, important wickets. Hauritz's FC record clearly indicates that he doesn't get enough wickets. I'd rather see Andrew McDonald in as a holding bowler if I was Australia. He's a better batsman, and is incredibly economical. Just a shame he's ginger really. Harris isn't purely a holding bowler either, he's capable of taking hauls of wicket's, and actually has 15 FC 5fers with 2 in Test cricket. He's a MUCH better spinner than Hauritz.

 

[aussie1st]

We all know our dire straights in the spin department. Right now we have the worst spinner of the Test nations. Hauritz will only play on the spinning deck which will give him assistance and he is economical. McDonald being a medium pacer won't be able to take advantage of the turn offered from the pitch hence it is better picking Haurtiz over him.

But unless it is a turning deck I would be going the 4 seamers.

 

[sifter132]

Nathan Hauritz: 69 wickets at 48.90
Stuart MacGill: 357 wickets at 33.06
Shane Warne: 161 wickets at 34.72

All those averages show is that even the greatest leg spinner ever (arguable of course, but he's at least very close to the title) averages almost 35 in Aussie FC cricket - it is a spinners graveyard.

Even when Hauritz (or any spinner) plays in Shield cricket, they rarely get enough overs to get close to getting 5fors. They are basically used as second innings specialists and are usually defensive options only.

Last summer for example, there were only 2 occasions (in 31 Shield games) where a spinner got over 5 wickets in a MATCH! Cullen Bailey took 8 against QLD and Hauritz took 6 against Tassie. And I count 3 5fors - Chris Simpson, Cullen Bailey and Bryce McGain. The season before (07/08) was a little better 6 5fors - 2 x each for McGain and Hogg, 1 x each for Casson and MacGill. But of course MacGill and Hogg aren't available any more. And the best wicket taking spinner we have (McGain) got carted over in SA. Of course, Krejza had his 5fer against India on tour too, but that is the only time he's taken 5 wickets EVER in a FC match.

Can you blame the selectors for picking a more defensive spinner when they is no obvious guy there to pick? I don't, they can attack with the fast bowlers.

 

[karnog]

Just out of interest what if Mcdonald scores a century and takes 7 wickets against the Lions boys? I know its hypothetical but would u have him over North or not?

 

[Hooper]

Just out of interest what if Mcdonald scores a century and takes 7 wickets against the Lions boys? I know its hypothetical but would u have him over North or not?

No way!

MacDonald is a joke of a Test selection, he is nothing more then your average English county cricketer who bats well in domestic cricket. His bowling is as dangerous as a Justin Langer medium pacer and won't help us take 20 wickets. We either go with a batsman who can score a hundred or a bowler who could take a 5-fer. Not bits and pieces players like MacDonald.

 

[King Pietersen]

All those averages show is that even the greatest leg spinner ever (arguable of course, but he's at least very close to the title) averages almost 35 in Aussie FC cricket - it is a spinners graveyard.

Even when Hauritz (or any spinner) plays in Shield cricket, they rarely get enough overs to get close to getting 5fors. They are basically used as second innings specialists and are usually defensive options only.

Last summer for example, there were only 2 occasions (in 31 Shield games) where a spinner got over 5 wickets in a MATCH! Cullen Bailey took 8 against QLD and Hauritz took 6 against Tassie. And I count 3 5fors - Chris Simpson, Cullen Bailey and Bryce McGain. The season before (07/08) was a little better 6 5fors - 2 x each for McGain and Hogg, 1 x each for Casson and MacGill. But of course MacGill and Hogg aren't available any more. And the best wicket taking spinner we have (McGain) got carted over in SA. Of course, Krejza had his 5fer against India on tour too, but that is the only time he's taken 5 wickets EVER in a FC match.

Can you blame the selectors for picking a more defensive spinner when they is no obvious guy there to pick? I don't, they can attack with the fast bowlers.

That's my point, irrespective of the pitch, Hauritz should not be playing. He's not one of the best 4 or 5 bowlers in the squad, so shouldn't be picked. He's a very average spinner, that, as proven by the game against Sussex, would even struggle to take hauls of wickets at County level. I'd go in with the 4 best bowlers, which I feel are Johnson, Siddle, Clark and either Hilfenhaus or Lee. I'd probably go for Lee, mainly because in the past he has troubled Kevin Pietersen with his pace. Michael Clarke, Marcus North and Simon Katich can then chip in with the spin options, and Clarke especially is a better spinner than Hauritz from what I've seen.

I also disagree with Hooper regarding Ronald. I think he'd do a better job than Hauritz at containing England. He may not pick up bag fuls of wickets every innings, but the pressure he applies from 1 end can lead to a wicket at the other. I'd definitely be picking him ahead of Hauritz.

 

[Hooper]

That's my point, irrespective of the pitch, Hauritz should not be playing. He's not one of the best 4 or 5 bowlers in the squad, so shouldn't be picked. He's a very average spinner, that, as proven by the game against Sussex, would even struggle to take hauls of wickets at County level. I'd go in with the 4 best bowlers, which I feel are Johnson, Siddle, Clark and either Hilfenhaus or Lee. I'd probably go for Lee, mainly because in the past he has troubled Kevin Pietersen with his pace. Michael Clarke, Marcus North and Simon Katich can then chip in with the spin options, and Clarke especially is a better spinner than Hauritz from what I've seen.

I also disagree with Hooper regarding Ronald. I think he'd do a better job than Hauritz at containing England. He may not pick up bag fuls of wickets every innings, but the pressure he applies from 1 end can lead to a wicket at the other. I'd definitely be picking him ahead of Hauritz.

We dont want a "container", this is Test match cricket, you don't contain batsman, you get them out to win, Ronald isn't going to help us get them out as much as a strike bowler.

 

[King Pietersen]

Why's Hauritz being considered for selection then? That's all he'd be in the team to do, he's certainly not a strike bowler.

 

[Hooper]

Because we need a spinner for the Cardiff Test (apparently), thats the only reason! He is the only decent spinner we have.