Mar 19 : Australia vs Pakistan

[War]

Didn't see much of our innings but I did see Ponting make a half-assed attempt to field a ball not the first time this tournament either. He is clearly troubled by his pinky, no where near 100% and his batting has gone down hill. Don't know who cleared him to play but he should not be playing.

No surprise our attack struggled bar Lee, they are one tricky ponies. England showed how to play Johnson in the Ashes and Tait hasn't been the same for ages. Also the sooner Clarke is back as captain the better, he was using Smith perfectly and it's no surprise he had his best bowling period under him.

A bit knee jerk & confusing is this statement.

Funny how you are labeling the pace attack one trick ponies after this one game. If AUS had made 200-220, that same 1 trick pony attack could have very well & won this game. The bowlers didn't cost AUS this game - clearly it was the batting. Even an past all-time great AUS ODI attacks of McGrath/Gillespie/Lee/Warne would have struggled to defend such a target.

Secondly i wouldnt translate Johnson's test form to how he bowled/how he may bowl in the ODI arena. Since his weaknesses in tests, which ENG showed how to play will more than 90% of the time get him wickets in ODIs.

Tait looked short of fitness today as i mentioned before. He also since the T20 World Cup last year is currently in his best phase in the AUS limited overs team of his career, so im not sure what you means by "he hasn't been the same for ages".

Finally how has Ponting used Smith in this world-cup any different to how Clarke used him the recent home ODI vs England?.

 

[aussie1st]

Johnson has done jack all since his two 4 fers early in the tournament and the SA warmup game still runs in my head. Yes the batting was at fault but where was the support for Lee? We have gone through a whole summer blaming the batsmen but the bowlers aren't free from the blame either.

How is Tait in his best phase in his ODI career? His best phase was the 07 WC, he's no where near that sort of form.

As for Smith check the amount of overs he has bowled this tournament compared to the ODI series against England.

 

[War]

Johnson has done jack all since his two 4 fers early in the tournament and the SA warmup game still runs in my head. Yes the batting was at fault but where was the support for Lee? We have gone through a whole summer blaming the batsmen but the bowlers aren't free from the blame either.

How is Tait in his best phase in his ODI career? His best phase was the 07 WC, he's no where near that sort of form.

As for Smith check the amount of overs he has bowled this tournament compared to the ODI series against England.

Yes Johnson has taken any big hauls since his two early 4 ferls, but that doesn't mean he has bowled crap since then. Yes Johnson & Tait (for reasons i already mentioned) could have supported Lee slightly better - but fact is they aint at fault for reasons already stated.

I jolt your memory back to 2002 Champions trophy semi-final:

2nd SF: Sri Lanka v Australia at Colombo (RPS), Sep 27, 2002 | Cricket Scorecard | ESPN Cricinfo

You see even with a legendary attack, if your batsmen fail & leave you to defend such poor targets, you will generally be defeated.


On Tait, yea i give the last year of Tait's bowling especially during the T20 World Cup & ODIs in England a slight edge over his 2007 WC performance given he has been less he has shown. But of course 2days bowling doesn't live up to those heights. I'm fairly sure since the ODI series in ENG last year, Tait has gone for under 6 rpo in less games than most games during the 2007 WC.

On Smith, i dont understand that point or what its suppose to prove. Ponting has clearly used Smith similarly to how Clarke used him in the home ODI series. Ponting even brought Smith on before Krejza in the Kenya game, so its quite obvious his bowling is valued & well used.

I hope you are not implying in anyway that Smith should have bowled today?.

 

[aussie1st]

Let me jolt your memory to this WC

21st Match, Group B: England v South Africa at Chennai, Mar 6, 2011 | Cricket Scorecard | ESPN Cricinfo

Guess who won after making 171 runs. Yep that right the English, you don't see their bowlers crying about their batsmen not making enough runs because just like the Ashes they got the job done. India also did likewise in the warmup matches after a similarly poor display by their batsmen.

And need I remind you that on this very ground the Canadians bowled Pakistan out for 180. http://www.espncricinfo.com/icc_cricket_worldcup2011/engine/match/433574.html

Lee showed there was enough in the wicket to replicate what Pakistan did.

On Smith, i dont understand that point or what its suppose to prove. Ponting has clearly used Smith similarly to how Clarke used him in the home ODI series. Ponting even brought Smith on before Krejza in the Kenya game, so its quite obvious his bowling is valued & well used.

Hes been under bowled this tournament. And you of all people should know Ponting sucks at setting fields for spinners.

 

[1iram1]

Smith and Yardy are very similar in a few ways:

1.Both are bits and pieces players, at least in ODIs.
2.Neither have contributed to their respective teams this WC.
3.Both of them have been underused, with Smith being the bigger victim.

 

[aussie1st]

It's always hard doing something from the 7 spot. It's the ideal slot for the big hitters which Smith and Yardy aren't. I reckon Smith would go better higher up the order, he looked very comfortable last night but was left stranded once again.

 

[War]

Let me jolt your memory to this WC

21st Match, Group B: England v South Africa at Chennai, Mar 6, 2011 | Cricket Scorecard | ESPN Cricinfo

Guess who won after making 171 runs. Yep that right the English, you don't see their bowlers crying about their batsmen not making enough runs because just like the Ashes they got the job done. India also did likewise in the warmup matches after a similarly poor display by their batsmen.

And need I remind you that on this very ground the Canadians bowled Pakistan out for 180. 17th Match, Group A: Canada v Pakistan at Colombo (RPS), Mar 3, 2011 | Cricket Scorecard | ESPN Cricinfo

Lee showed there was enough in the wicket to replicate what Pakistan did.

Ha well although those are technically examples of teams defending low scores i dont see them as necessarily compared to AUS game today.

The ENG vs SA game AFAIC was a fluke win for ENG & SA seemingly lost their heads that afternoon - made ENGs bowling look better than it actually was. Such things always happen in cricket every once in a while, which is why we say this cricket is a game of glorious uncertainties. SA should have won at similar way to how PAK beat AUS today.

But im very positive more teams in ODI history have lost after batting first scoring 150-175 scores than have won. Whether they had average/poor/great attacks trying to defend such a target.

Pakistan also made 270 vs the test standard SRI on that same ground. So i dont take what happened vs Canada serious. PAK team are historically known for their unpredictability. Them losing to NZ, getting bowled out for 180 vs Can - but beating SRI & AUS in this WC to date proves that.

Hes been under bowled this tournament. And you of all people should know Ponting sucks at setting fields for spinners.

No he hasn't been under-bowled. Im struggling to see how you are coming to that comparative conclusion vs how Clarke used him in AUS recently my friend. At the end of the day he is still a part-time spinner, so their is only so much overs we should expect Ponting to use from him - given he already has 5 main bowlers.

Not sure if id say if Ponting sucks at setting fields for spinners. Id say he is pretty decent, i dont recall any match situation where Ponting had an abysmal field setting for any spinner. Ponting likes using spinners - id just say he at times with regards to how Krejza was intially treated as spinner in 2008 - he likes his spinners to be tie up end for him & if they struggle (Hauritz in IND & Doherty in the Ashes) that spinner would lose Punter's support.

 

[aussie1st]

What those matches show is they haven't been uncommon in this WC. No one has said the batsmen aren't to blame but letting the bowlers off scott free is sweeping the glaring problems under the carpet.

Not sure if id say if Ponting sucks at setting fields for spinners. Id say he is pretty decent, i dont recall any match situation where Ponting had an abysmal field setting for any spinner. Ponting likes using spinners - id just say he at times with regards to how Krejza was intially treated as spinner in 2008 - he likes his spinners to be tie up end for him & if they struggle (Hauritz in IND & Doherty in the Ashes) that spinner would lose Punter's support.

That there is called crap field settings. It has been said numerous times by former cricketers that Ponting doesn't know how to use a spinner properly. Is it any surprise that Smith had his best bowling period under Clarke as captain?

 

[War]

Smith and Yardy are very similar in a few ways:

1.Both are bits and pieces players, at least in ODIs.
2.Neither have contributed to their respective teams this WC.
3.Both of them have been underused, with Smith being the bigger victim.

Smith is better player than Yardy quite clearly.

Yardy is bits & pieces. Smith's record may be that of bits & pieces as ODI player currently. But he is clearly better than that & he is very likely to become a quality ODI player in the future. While Yardy's will likely be dropped from the ENG ODI team within the next year & go down in the long lists of average bits & pieces all-rounder ENG have used in ODIs, since the 1992 world cup.

It's always hard doing something from the 7 spot. It's the ideal slot for the big hitters which Smith and Yardy aren't. I reckon Smith would go better higher up the order, he looked very comfortable last night but was left stranded once again.

Actually i'd say Smith is very much capable of being a bit hitter/finisher coming in @ # 7. He has shown glimpses of that alot already.

Yardy however batting is not suited to that role for ENG & is waste of space batting their. What has kept him in the ODI team is mainly is bowling.

 

[aussie1st]

Actually i'd say Smith is very much capable of being a bit hitter/finisher coming in @ # 7. He has shown glimpses of that alot already.

I'm Smith's biggest fan but he far from a big hitter. The majority of his innings he has struggled to find the boundary consistently like you would see from a Pollard, Afridi or Razzaq. That just isn't his game, even for NSW in the OD comp you won't find any innings where he gets a 30 off 10 balls. He is a player that needs time to get in similar to White and Dussey.

 

[War]

What those matches show is they haven't been uncommon in this WC. No one has said the batsmen aren't to blame but letting the bowlers off scott free is sweeping the glaring problems under the carpet.

No im definitely not letting them off the hook. I have highlighted that Tait & Johnson could have done more. As i said im already thinking that Nannes could come in next game if that where possible.

But their struggles doesn't match up with the failure of the batsmen & as i said if we had made 200-220, we may have very likely been talking about an AUS victory right now.

That there is called crap field settings. It has been said numerous times by former cricketers that Ponting doesn't know how to use a spinner properly. Is it any surprise that Smith had his best bowling period under Clarke as captain?

The only time i remember somebody/past players ranting over Punter's field setting for any spinner was the last day of final test vs IND recently. When Warne had the infamous screaming on twitter of how Ponting had an ultra-defensive field for Hauritz. While ignoring the fact that Hauritz by that stage of the match, after Ponting had been giving Hauritz fairly good fields all series, the IND batsmen had pummeled Hauritz to all parts all series regardless of what field Ponting had set - Ponting understandably had lost faith & was jsut trying to minimize the boundaries that Hauritz was going for.

Secondly i dont where you are going with this "best bowling period" talk. Smith got a few wickets vs ENG yea cool, but Ponting in this world cup has bowled him just as regularly as Clarke did in AUS. He just hasn't gotten the same cheap wickets to date in the WC. You couldn't have seriously expected that to happen forever & for him to be one of AUS main wicket-taking options going into the WC?. Smith is still a part-time spinner he aint no Afridi, if he gets AUS wickets - thats a bonus - but if he doesn't tough luck (just that when he isn't taking wickets he isn't been expensive).

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I'm Smith's biggest fan but he far from a big hitter. The majority of his innings he has struggled to find the boundary consistently like you would see from a Pollard, Afridi or Razzaq. That just isn't his game, even for NSW in the OD comp you won't find any innings where he gets a 30 off 10 balls. He is a player that needs time to get in similar to White and Dussey.

Well yes he isn't a bludgeoning type hitter like Pollard, Afrid, Razzaq, Cairns, Symonds, Klusener, Flintoff, Y Pathan etc. His game is take a bit of time, then he will find the boundary, which is good enough for a # 7 still. Since when he gets in like White he will find the boundary & catch up to balls he used him getting himself in.

 

[aussie1st]

The only time i remember somebody/past players ranting over Punter's field setting for any spinner was the last day of final test vs IND recently. When Warne had the infamous screaming on twitter of how Ponting had an ultra-defensive field for Hauritz. While ignoring the fact that Hauritz by that stage of the match, after Ponting had been giving Hauritz fairly good fields all series, the IND batsmen had pummeled Hauritz to all parts all series regardless of what field Ponting had set - Ponting understandably had lost faith & was jsut trying to minimize the boundaries that Hauritz was going for.

Go back and watch some highlights and you will see the commentators harping on about it. As for Hauritz being smashed to all parts, that was because Ponting told him to be more aggressive. Instead of sticking to what he did best he was forced to change his game.

econdly i dont where you are going with this "best bowling period" talk. Smith got a few wickets vs ENG yea cool, but Ponting in this world cup has bowled him just as regularly as Clarke did in AUS. He just hasn't gotten the same cheap wickets to date in the WC. You couldn't have seriously expected that to happen forever & for him to be one of AUS main wicket-taking options going into the WC?. Smith is still a part-time spinner he aint no Afridi, if he gets AUS wickets - thats a bonus - but if he doesn't tough luck (just that when he isn't taking wickets he isn't been expensive).

Simple he looked a hell of a lot more comfortable under the leadership of Clarke. It wasn't just the cheap wickets he was bowling well. Having the confidence of your captain plays a big part in how you bowl.

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Well yes he isn't a bludgeoning type hitter like Pollard, Afrid, Razzaq, Cairns, Symonds, Klusener, Flintoff, Y Pathan etc. His game is take a bit of time, then he will find the boundary, which is good enough for a # 7 still. Since when he gets in like White he will find the boundary & catch up to balls he used him getting himself in.

Which is why it isn't his ideal spot, the guys that need time to get in really should be higher.

 

[midgetwars]

Yeh, i agree. We've lost the ashes and the selectors haven't done crap.

Clarke was brilliant as captain in the ODI give him captaincy. Swap hussey and white, why is hussey down at 6??

Ponting without captaincy may even score some runs. Clarke knows how to actually rotate his bowlers. We saw that against England. Although what he was doing against SL was weird.

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Yeh, i agree. We've lost the ashes and the selectors haven't done crap.

Clarke was brilliant as captain in the ODI give him captaincy. Swap hussey and white, why is hussey down at 6??

Ponting without captaincy may even score some runs. Clarke knows how to actually rotate his bowlers. We saw that against England. Although what he was doing against SL was weird.

 

[angryangy]

I think the bowlers looked much less fitness-challenged than 3 matches ago. Tait and Johnson started badly, but got better and the pace of the bowlers was good too. Overall, Pakistan batted better than one would have hoped. They played some unnecessary shots, but enough of them came off. The one thing that persists is that there were some dirty hits into the legside that fielders might have been under.

Smith not getting a bowl was interesting. Krejza might have deserved to bowl 10, but in context, he probably should have stopped at 8. Once Pakistan were within 20, the plan should have switched to death mode.

 

[Sedition]

Never thought I'd be saying it, but without the Akmals, Pakistan would have lost
I guess sometimes glory is better than money for these guys