Scooby Doo Mafia - ARay Wins!

[6ry4nj]

Only when he went wrong was blocking Spoobir on night 7 instead of Ray.

It was only wrong in hindsight. As there was a lynch immunity out there, it is simply invalid to fault me for suspecting a one-shot roleblock immunity, especially with the way you were doing PMs.

From mafiascum.net (my emphasis):

Players are not told that they are blocked unless it cannot be helped. For instance, a Cop who is blocked by a Roleblocker has to be told something for their investigation result. Normally the Cop is given a message like "No Result". (It is terrible form to simply not give the Cop any result at all and assume that the Cop understands that they were blocked - the Cop may instead question if the moderator forgot about their investigation.)

And I suspect the same goes for other roles. And I'm sure it does for successful roleblocks.

One-shot immunities for scum are sh*t in all cases as far as I can see. They mean everything the town does without seeing a result has to be done twice.

 

[6ry4nj]

Originally Posted by 6ry4nj
Note that if a townie had been lynched Day 1, and all three killers had killed townies Night 1, town would have been relying on non-town votes for their lynch already on Day 2 (7 town, 7 non-town).

There was a triple voter there for some reason, you know. Not my fault Callum killed him straightaway. Also, how are you sure all those killers would have killed townies? They could have killed themselves too.

I'm not saying it isn't hard but you have to design for the worst-case scenario. When I posted that I was neglecting the fact that there were effectively 6 mafia. We got lucky with one, and three others threw their lives away. Otherwise it could've been endgame (50% mafia) by the end of Night 2 - no exaggeration! Townie lynches on Days 1 & 2 are almost standard. And Callum was (as it happens) exclusively targeting townies, understandably since with a normal balance of numbers, mafia get heavily outnumbered if they die early, and success for him depended on balance between the two sides.

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But yeaaah the thing that I did want to comment on was the fact that someone in this game went like "Ohh ARay is alive after the first 2 nights, so he must be mafia". As true as it was, it was rather disheartening to read. Most probably because it takes a huge incentive out to play the game.

Simply because you either get knocked out early on or rather you are immediately under suspicion to be mafia. I am hoping to have the player quality in general improve some more, where then I can play without being singled out as a player.

Yeah but on the other extreme, your survival depended to a large extent on the "ARay not being on our side is too terrible to contemplate" factor from town.

I think we are going in the right direction though
6ry4nj and Spoobir are brilliant.

Thanks for the bit about me (I only read those bits lol).

 

[Chewie]

My bad. I was assuming a Survivor only had to survive. But to kill everyone and survive is an impossible role, full stop. Especially with only an occasional killing ability.

My understanding is you always inform a player of the result of a night action (successful/unsuccessful/no result). What do others think?

With regards to role blocking, I think I only pm-ed them back when they were unsuccessful. Didn't do anything if it was successful or they didn't have a role.

You've mixed up survivor with serial killer. SK has to kill everyone and survive. Survivor just has to be there at the end, no matter who wins

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I agree that whenever someone is roleblocked that they should get a pm saying they were not able to complete their role. This would include if there was say a commuter which led to them not being able to use their role (same pm as roleblocked).

And I agree with your sentiments with regards to those bodyguards, I mentioned it in my post before your ones. I don't like those roles at all

 

[6ry4nj]

You've mixed up survivor with serial killer. SK has to kill everyone and survive. Survivor just has to be there at the end, no matter who wins

Yes you're quite right, I must've read Papa Smurf's role as Callum's. In that case my original criticism stands: it was an outright lie and anti-town (and triply anti-Callum) disinformation to put "kill everyone" as Callum's motivation in the Night 1 writeup. Although it is then surprising why he kept targeting townies. Without that "kill everyone", it is quite conceivable we (town) could've formed a beautiful partnership with him, since his easiest path to win was with town.

Also, just noticed - Batman & Robin the psycho-killers, and The Joker the vigilante!? I think that's pathetic too! Might as well make Scooby the godfather! In a themed game, like it or not, roles have to mean something!

 

[hedger_14]

Might as well make Scooby the godfather!

I was actually expecting a twist where I get thrown over to the mafia side

It'd be fun though to have a themed mafia game and have the main protagonist as the mafia godfather. That would make things interesting

 

[Chewie]

Yes you're quite right, I must've read Papa Smurf's role as Callum's. In that case my original criticism stands: it was an outright lie and anti-town (and triply anti-Callum) disinformation to put "kill everyone" as Callum's motivation in the Night 1 writeup. Although it is then surprising why he kept targeting townies. Without that "kill everyone", it is quite conceivable we (town) could've formed a beautiful partnership with him, since his easiest path to win was with town.

Also, just noticed - Batman & Robin the psycho-killers, and The Joker the vigilante!? I think that's pathetic too! Might as well make Scooby the godfather! In a themed game, like it or not, roles have to mean something!

He didn't purposely go for townies, he had no idea...

 

[MaD]

The Joker was Survivor not Vigilante, Callum just said that to make it seem like he was more town based, I think

 

[6ry4nj]

The Joker was Survivor not Vigilante, Callum just said that to make it seem like he was more town based, I think

He was both - standard Survivors don't have a night kill (in fact it's thoroughly nonstandard! ). Also, his best chance of winning was to finish off the mafia quick, so he was pro-town aligned by his win conditions.

 

[Ollie_H]

The thing with balance with mafia games, is you never know how it is going to work because as you said you cannot playtest it and even if you could you would still get different results every time. Whilst you are saying it could have been game over for the town after Night 2, same could have been said the mafia on Night 2.

You get a mafia first lynch, one dies over night, lynch one the next day and they are already down to 2 left and it's only down to 2 left with a bunch of townies. It happened in one of the games where I think there was 2 mafia left and they still bit back.

Balancing works both ways and when you say it COULD (emphasis on the COULD) have gone against the town, it didn't and that was the game. You don't need to think up scenario's for how the game was balanced had a different situation happened because it didn't.

Also, I don't think we should be sticking by epicmafia and mafiascum for all their roles and sticking to it to the letter. It should be guidance but modders should be able allowed to use their imagination and applauded for it (or told how they could have played that role sightly better) rather than just being criticsed for not sticking to the letter of the wiki.

 

[ARay]

I agree, I think User did a great job of trying to tie all the lose ends.
In the end both mafia and town had an equal chance of winning. So it worked out all right and that is what matters.

 

[Gaurav_7]

Oh dear. JB, if you're going to stick by the books then I can't do anything. Bodyguards were there to counter the three killers and to make it easy for the win conditions of people who were Shaggy and Scooby. And, Batman and Robin wanted the Joker dead. So, Smurfs condition was easy. Callum was a vig + survivor. He could kill people on alternative nights and had to win alone at the end. What is not so meaningful here?

It'd be fun though to have a themed mafia game and have the main protagonist as the mafia godfather. That would make things interesting

There were two options for me at the start of the game when I was creating the roles. Either I had to put mystery gang as the mafias as they are always together or make them town which actually makes more sense. Hence, I kept the roles for Shaggy and Scooby as such.

It was only wrong in hindsight. As there was a lynch immunity out there, it is simply invalid to fault me for suspecting a one-shot roleblock immunity, especially with the way you were doing PMs.

How was I doing the PMs? I told you when you blocked someone and I also told you when you didn't. It was only when you targeted a non role person that you didn't get any PM.

And, this wasn't the first time that the GF had an immune or an investigation immune once.

Balancing works both ways and when you say it COULD (emphasis on the COULD) have gone against the town, it didn't and that was the game. You don't need to think up scenario's for how the game was balanced had a different situation happened because it didn't.

This. If I was thinking all that, I would have countless scenarios and game couldn't have gone forward.

I wonder how would you have reacted if you played HP mafia. That game needed at least 3 people dead before the GF could be killed by any means. So, how would you explain that? As Ollie said, it works both ways.

If you still don't get it, I can't help it. People have enjoyed the game, I'm more than happy. As I said, I can't please everyone.

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But to kill everyone and survive is an impossible role, full stop. Especially with only an occasional killing ability.

He could kill every alternate night. And, by surviving it meant, he had to be alone at the end and couldn't win with any alignment. Hence, kill and survive.

 

[Chewie]

With those bodyguards, they have no choice in the matter though. Normally bodyguards choose who they protect, but these ones have, by no choice of their own, double the chance of dieing. And someone still dies.

 

[Varun]

Thank you for the compliment, and disagree with the rest . Varun saw the pressure on him and went to bed, knowing there were more than enough potential mafia out there to lynch him overnight. I expected even an average player would know better - if town - hence 98%.

98% btw - not 100% x2 as in LOTR...

Lol what else could I do besides going to sleep? Very few people were active during the time I made my post. When I went to bed I hoped people would believe me and unlynch me. But you kept gunning for me.

You suggest what I should've done.

 

[P Squared]

I think I could've won this game if it wasn't for my fail claim. It just makes me want to tear my hair out. Seriously.

 

[MaD]

Yeah this really shows that mafia can win solo so from now on, screw protecting team mates, I was trying to protect Yudi and Chewie since I thought we couldn't win without em but whaddya know...